Discussion: VP/BF Price Changes

[ShadeShooter]

So now that things have somewhat quietened down, I have a chance to create one central topic where you can voice your opinions (within reason, as in a serious and mature discussion and nothing of the sort of "you suck" and the many other examples that are seen floating about currently)

The official statement is as of follows:

(30-11-2009 03:59 PM)BenCousins Wrote:  Hi guys - that interview is from February 2008 I think - we've been selling weapons for both BF and VP for a while now - nothing changed there today. If you remember we made the standard weapons available permanently for BF in closed beta. These new weapons are no different - they are available for free with VP and they are available permanently for BF (actually at a price that was lower than before).

Our analysis of the VP economy showed us that people had lots of unused VP, which told us the prices for VP items were too low - hence the increases in VP pricing today.

We also frankly wanted to make buying Battlefunds more appealing. We have wages to pay here in the Heroes team and in order to keep a team large enough to make new free content like maps and other game features we need to increase the amount of BF that people buy. Battlefield Heroes is a business at the end of the day and for a company like EA who recently laid off 16% of their workforce, we need to keep an eye on the accounts and make sure we are doing our bit for the company.

If you guys have any more questions or comments feel free to email me direct on ben.cousins@dice.se

Followed by several other statements by some of the Heroes Team:

(01-12-2009 08:44 AM)HelloAndy Wrote:  

(01-12-2009 08:24 AM)MattyG Wrote:  Do you know if the prices are going to be fixed or not?

Fixed isn't a term I would use, but it's highly likely they will be adjusted as we've continued to change the ratio between free/vp/bf since the beginning of the game. Comparing to other games out there, ranging from Windows games to Facebook games, we've had waaay low price/effort to get access to all of the cool content without barely even trying.

It should be possible to play and enjoy the game for free (which you can, the default clothes are a bit dull, but the default set of weapons are good and leathal). A more active player should be rewarded with enough VP to use a few none-standard items (here we might need more tweaking) either for a couple of days, like over the weekend, or be able to keep using some of them. And if you wanna have imba looks and a great weapon unlimited, then you should be able to buy this with a small and affordable amount of BF (we lowered this even more now).

(01-12-2009 09:41 AM)HelloAndy Wrote:  

(01-12-2009 09:06 AM)johnratchet3 Wrote:  I'd like to say that I'm very glad someone is replying to the many sensible questions and comments now. Thank you for that Andy.

Thank you back.

(01-12-2009 09:06 AM)johnratchet3 Wrote:  Few of us are booing the new shotgun so much as the 10x increase in valour point items. That's right. The price per day has gone up by 10 times. It's become nearly impossible for the free player, the VAST majority, to afford the very simple customisations that give the game its class and livelyhood.

Some VP items should definitely not be impossible to get. But haven't it been a bit too easy to keep several heroes up with full customization and weapons, and still have lots of VP over? You should definitely be awarded for playing, but perhaps not a full setup of extra-everything?

For widgets like bandages, I think lots of people forget that this change is for everyone. And it's not only about pricing but a bit about gameplay too. Think about it like this: If you can assume that every player you meet will have a stack of essentially unlimited amount of bandages, then what good is that item? We could've just made it default for no price at all. Which in turn would mean we could just remove it since everyone have it. Now what you get is instead an item that is worth something, that you save for those special occasions instead of throwing on basically every cooldown. Yes, it will be a change of how you play, how everyone plays. But in my opinion, after 10 000 rounds fired and the round is over, I'd rather see that I've killed (and maybe died) 10 times instead of 3.

(01-12-2009 09:06 AM)johnratchet3 Wrote:  And again. If DICE needed more money, all they had to do was ask us outright. I'm positive it would've come flooding in. And everybody would be happy that we avoided this mess.

Thanks for your concern. We don't really need money as much as a sustainable business model for the game. Like, we want a lightweight and fun game, with great graphics and gameplay, that doesn't cost a lot to play and enjoy. AND that this game is not costing us more money than we make. Even if it would seem like a company like EA have endless money, it's bad business if games cost more to develop and maintain than they bring in. If a cash flow turns negative each month it will lead to zero money in the bank eventually. Not saying this is the case for us, but if we get it right with Heroes and this model, we can have a lasting positive cashflow and can continue working with it forever and everyone will be happy. Even make amazing expansions or who knows what the future might bring?

Forewarning: This will be the only topic open concerning this matter, any topics created concerning this matter will be closed and redirected here as not only does it allow us to streamline your feeling, emotions and feedback to the Team but it gives you a direct link to the statements given by us.

Furthermore, any posts in this topic attempting to cause trouble will be deleted with no questions asked. You want an official topic to state your opinions etc. you now have one and you can do so but in an orderly fashion.

So let's keep this civil and calm please, the subject is a frustrating one, that much is known but foul language, hatred, anger, rage and anything else that causes negativity never gets you anywhere except into trouble.

[LoL2Much]

Thank you shade for this thread First post!!

[Bara]

(01-12-2009 01:52 PM)LoL2Much Wrote:  Thank you shade for this thread

agree!!!
This Imagechaos yesterday caused so much lag.

[HELICOPTER_AMBO]

yeah this is good
i didnt see some of those quotes cause they got lost in the flaming fires of death

[Chrooz]

you suck...

couldnt resist

[Thaffy]

Hi Shade

Just restore the prices back, that would be awsome
And do like in the other topic (new weapons = 450/7 VP)

Thanks

~Thaffy

[LoL2Much]

Viva Revolution was more annyoing then the price changes actualy...And why isant this thread flooded with posts yet?

[Surgery]

If you just changed the prices to be lower, while still having the option of buying for longer and buying for VP in the first place, none of this would of happened and you wouldn't of had pages of spam on the matter..

Think before you do a major change to the game.

[AlmostElite]

CAN THEY AT LEAST CHANGE BANDAGES AND WRENCHES BACK?!?!?!

EA could also think about RAISING THE MINIMUM VP EARNED IN ONE ROUND... 3-7 VP, oh boy time for a VP boo- wait...THAT'S BATTLE FUNDS

[Wolverine81]

Imagine now using bandages that crashes a few euro-cents.
If so be it, at least for the let 120vp bandage will be 50 not 10
Cool clothes better weapons but disagree about bandages should not be available for BF.
Did any of you are able to earn in 1 day so many VP to create a good weapon for 1day? I think not.
Please think about it thanks.

Please others in this topic that behaved like grown men, and not as savage children with ADHD. Constructive conversation can do more good than destructive anger.
Thank you

[wotertool]

yes please change the prices back
and the new weapons should be a little bit cheaper

[McNutty|R.A.T.S.]

I love this game.

I am one of the older guys here (29) and I had always been intimidated by online shooters, talk of KDR and server lists were like a brick wall to me. But Heroes seamed different, it was a game that focused on fun and it was easy to have a good time even if I wasn’t the best player on the team.

As time went on I got better and the best thing was that I started to make some really cool friends. I wrote about that in one of the first “User Reviews” and it was featured on the front page – that was awesome.

My group of friends became the R.A.T.S. Clan. Essentially we were a bunch a bunch of people that had fun playing together, nothing too “hardcore” just a big old group of like-minded people that you could join up with for a laugh. The idea that I would end up helping to put together a clan with their own server would have been crazy to me a year ago but it is probably the most fun I’ve had playing games (definitely when it comes to online games).

Because I am older I have the money to “keep up” with the way Heroes is going. £5 every now and then is no big deal and I have spent a silly amount of money on virtual kilts and parrots over the past few months. I was happy to do so because I wanted to support this awesome game (and DICE made Pinball Dreams for the Amiga and were therefore awesome).

The thing is that a lot of my friends aren’t going to be able to “keep up” and if I can’t play on a level playing field then I don’t want to play.

When I first started playing I sucked – 9 months later and I’m good(ish). I worked for that and I don’t want to have my progress cheapened by buying an advantage.

There is now a two tier system and half my friends are on the wrong side of the tracks; some because they don’t have the disposable income, others because they object to the course of action being taken.

Please reconsider this DICE. Remember when you were three students in a bedroom programming Amiga games? I don’t think that those guys would want to undo all the good work that you have done so far – and some of that work has been fan-dabi-dozi.

[Reposting this because the original got lost in the spam and I would like the team to see it and, ideally, respond. Also, make sure to read Clast's excellent post attached by the poster below me. Thanks]

[LoseALot]

(30-11-2009 11:10 PM)Clast Wrote:  You've made an excellent game, fantastic in fact. You looked on the barren wasteland that is f2p games and made a vow that instantly won you an audience with gamers, to maintain balance between those who will play your game for free, and those who wish to pay. "No unfair advantages. No buying a win button."

You had a model that very few other games could ever hope to have. Paying for cosmetic changes only. I for one, didn't care if I looked normal or generic. In fact, I'm glad that the people who paid to support this game, got benefits that made them noticeable to other players, and got them that much more immersed into the game.

You allowed battle funds to make the game slightly easier for casual gamers. Sure, people could pay to get awesome bandages, but so could we with a little more effort. Yes, they got interesting looking guns and clothes, but the game play was the same either way.

Today, you violated the trust of the community that has made this game great. It's not the game play, the graphics, sounds, support staff, or any of that that makes a game successful. It's the love of the community that invests their free time into your game that makes it great.

You stand now, a barrier, a wonderful SUPPORTED game behind you, your intended audience in front of you, with your arms crossed in front of the damned internet, demanding that people pay up in order to enjoy the game YOU promised them for free.

I'm not naive enough to say that your work and efforts should go unrewarded. Nor do I believe that what you guys do and spend your time on should go without monetary compensation. You've created something worth while, and deserve money, but alienating the gaming community is not the way to achieve this.

If you have a dedicated,and even by looking at the forums and the response garnered from this, feverishly devoted community, you will be taken care of. We will support your game, we will give suggestions on how to tweak it, and through interaction with us, and work from you, it will become greater, pulling in more and more people.

Gamers as a community, are one of the more unique markets that exist. Products we enjoy, we will go to the ends of the Earth to support, we will recommend them to our friends, we will suggest on how to improve, and we will defend the products to an almost insane length. We're given so much crap in the marketplace, that when we find what we enjoy, it's impossible to pry us away. Hell, just look at Battlefield 1942. I can hop on today, to this seven year old game, and find no less than 40 servers running Desert Combat, a USER created mod. They are not there because they want to level up, or because they want to grind out some arbitrary currency to purchase new weapons, they are there because they enjoy the game, and going on almost a decade, still wish to play it.

There are countless games who developers have abandoned, and are continued by the community:

"Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines" is still being played daily, and even worked on, by the community fixing the bugs, introducing new content, and making it playable.

The community for Myth 3 petitioned to gain the source code to the game, years after it had stopped being supported, in order to fix the bugs, so that they may play.

Mount and Blade is a game that is almost completely supported by the community, without which, would fail completely, purely through the passions of the modding community.

The point is, if you meet us half-way, we're there for you. If you create something we love, we will support it. But if you give us empty promises, micro-transaction game play, and separate the playing audience into a P2P crystal tower, surrounded by a F2P ghetto, you will alienate your audience, and gamers specifically, once shafted, are a particularly difficult audience to win back.

That was quite a serious post, wasn't it? The point is, I love your game, but if it becomes another mindless, soulless "Pay or die" MMO, I'll do without it, and I speak for many of my brethren.

[d3phext]

When we say that the new weapons being 450/day for a set of three standard weapons is ridiculously high, we're not strictly thinking of ourselves. Sure, I've floated between 3.5 and 4.5 thousand VP for the last month, but when my stash is gone within a month, I'll be in the same boat as the newbies, unless I spend BF.

This is not a full set of extra-everything, this is a VP deficit for every person just to (try to) keep his choice of Tier 1 weapons. Of course refreshing weapons was practically free before, as were bandages. But I'd rather see the VP increase be halved and everyone go to 0 VP right now, than to leave the prices the way they are. It has been demonstrated by several players using solid math that there's just not enough time in the day to "break even" on your VP gain. And that's just for one hero's weapons, I plan on changing my playstyle to avoid buying bandages for a while.

And speaking of newbies, one can't throw around that kind of VP (with the current VP earning system) to experiment and find his play-style. For example, I never could get the hang of the fast rifle. Well pretend it's my first day as a commando again. When I've just bought one and spent five minutes determining it sucks (personal observation, others can use it extremely well), I'm more likely to give up completely in anger since I've just depleted my whole VP bankroll. I wouldn't even have the VP to see how the very slow rifle (which I love) redeems my class!

One other issue I haven't seen addressed is simple; the single grenade is not nearly as useful or powerful as an RPG, yet they cost the same (read: too much). This wasn't an issue when we had VP to throw around on practically free weapons, but now it is.

And now is the time to reconsider the suggestion of having items time out based on play-time rather than real-life days. I thought it was a mostly pointless suggestion before, but now that we have to spend VP carefully it has much more merit. If this could sensibly implemented, no change would even be necessary to the current VP pricing.

[SigmaSlugger]

Ok, since you asked, I'll put up the censored version of my opinion here. The changes are ridiculous, at first when I checked the new shotguns pricing I thought "Well that's a rip-off but theyre not forcing us to buy it right?" Then as I go on my commando I realize that my Sharpshooter expired. I go to the shop and at first I thought it was a bug from the shotguns. Today I come to hear that it was not a bug. You really screwed up this time, but if you change the prices back or maybe add like 100 Vp to the original 1 Month price that would be fine, and all this spam-post about EA Sucks and Screw you EA would disappear and everyone would laugh about it over some nice tea. Wouldn't that be great?

[8ogdan]

The main problem with this update was (and still is ) the outrageous increase in VP cost . I wouldn't have minded a 5-10VP increase in the price of the weapons and widgets (which i rarely use, because I'm a soldier ), but at the moment I can't even sustain a single hero .

As long as BF could not give you an advantage , the community was (mostly) happy . The recent update made weapons viable for current use only to BF buyers . That , in my opinion , brakes the idea that initially made me play this game : a free-to-play game that doesn't give an advantage to paying players .

As for buying battlefunds , I haven't bought them , because I can't . My card doesn't work on the internet and the additional paying methods you introduced aren't available in my country . The only hope I have is SMS paying method , which I'm not sure if it will available in my region .

I would buy battlefunds , but if the game doesn't respect the idea that brought to Battlefield Heroes , then I won't . Having an advantage over others simply because you have spent money isn't fair , in my opinion .

[LoseALot]

Hope you don't mind, Clash.

[KorenoV]

They Just want money , again like all the comments u've saw at the topics .
alot will quit if the vp wont get back to what it was ...
And start make events , and more things that can buy in VP in the store
Stop think about making Money !

[Diablotin]

Well then I'll redirect myself here as the other post is sure to go down the pages pretty fast.
All I would like to add is that if I do have some spare VP, it's because I invested battlefunds into VP boost, and now you want us to invest more. I would've done it in due time but forcing me to do it sooner just doesn't make the cut. I more or less understand EA/Dice's position on this but the people who have payed already are the ones that are the most penalised on this issue, and it's sad as we are the ones that already contibuted to the game's development in the long run...

(01-12-2009 12:15 PM)Diablotin Wrote:  Is "Awsome" the right word to use Nutty? There are still many uncleared points and I see no official thread opened up by a mod to have a serious discussion with the community.

You know I'm in this game since early closed beta. And that's really when I had the most fun... But I played through the well known connection problems, the site and game downtime (remember those 5 days when the only news we received where twitter feeds once a day?), the buffs and nerfs, and the poor communication and the list goes on.

And yea, as I liked the game I decided to buy battlefunds, thinking that it would complete my gaming experience on BFH and at the same time reward Dice/EA for having made such a great game. And if one of you mods can have an indepth look at my account you will see that I'm not talking about 5 bucks here...

But now I find out that if I want to continue enjoying the same game experience (with bandages and normal guns for example), I have to put in more battlefunds and this I will not do. Why? Because I'm forced to, it's no longer a choice. It's a bit like if a beggar pointed a gun at my head asking me for money instead of asking nicely, it's a matter of principle.

And I feel deeply robbed by these changes, robbed because I have already given my share of the money, and I see no reasons to continue giving.

How about the private servers??? Payed for private servers, received some basic console to manage it, with no updates whatsoever on the BFHcc, and now all the private servers are as empty as the public ones, before the first 3 months of payments are over?

On top of all that the clans that where starting to build up are all tearing apart as a large part of the community is quiting. As time go by less and less friends are connected, making the gaming experience a little less enjoyable every day. So why continue to pay more?

Payed for battlefunds, payed for private server, and now must pay more to keep playing decently. Sure I can play with the free guns and use 1 bandage every 10 games on our empty server, but that's just not the way I want to play this game, so you guys sure won't be getting any more of my money, and like a lot of others, as soon as my VP run out I'm disinstalling and moving on, hoping to find a steady game where my invested time and money might harvest a better and longer gaming experience.

Edit: The least you could've done is warn the community about these changes, that way we might've all spent our saved VP's on fulling up bandages/weapons to be able to continue playing "normally" for a couple of more weeks. That really would've been a sort of "thank you" to the existing community before the new one arrives...

[P.Schulze]

(01-12-2009 01:50 PM)ShadeShooter Wrote:  For widgets like bandages, I think lots of people forget that this change is for everyone. And it's not only about pricing but a bit about gameplay too. Think about it like this: If you can assume that every player you meet will have a stack of essentially unlimited amount of bandages, then what good is that item? We could've just made it default for no price at all. Which in turn would mean we could just remove it since everyone have it. Now what you get is instead an item that is worth something, that you save for those special occasions instead of throwing on basically every cooldown. Yes, it will be a change of how you play, how everyone plays. But in my opinion, after 10 000 rounds fired and the round is over, I'd rather see that I've killed (and maybe died) 10 times instead of 3.

What special occasion? A candlelightdiner with a royal? This is a SHOOTER! It happens every third time, that I use a bandage and someone shoots me from far away and interupts the healing... And cheaters make it even harder to get healed in peace... This is the worst thing about the update. The weapons may be acceptable, but this... this is a big advantage for rich kids. That way I can flush my money down the toilet. Or at least burn something with it!

I would have no problem to pay for weapons, but in the moment not even for that, cause this game is a CHEATERPARADISE!