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01-12-2009, 02:57 PM | Post: #81
Lirichesky 
Ok, let's imagine that we are completely new to the game.
A hero makes its way up to lvl 10 with default weapons, and so gets an option to switch to tier 2. By lvl 10 you'll have about 1300 VPs (only in case you haven't spent a single VP on clothes and guns), which means you can rent a 3-day tier 2 weapon. After it expires, you are stuck with your defaults again.

And let's imagine what the gameplay will be, when everyone will be sticking to their free weapons:

Commando: Default knife is ok. Still ok, even compared to a "uber-super" version. Default rifle is much worse than its very-long-range (VLR) counterpart, and would be even worse than tier 2 rifle. So, commando is still playable on its default settings. Stealth ftw, say goodbye to pistol commandos, say hello to snipers/knifers.

Gunner: Mid-range MG is great, although i'll miss short-ranged one. Loss of the rocket launcher is a really low kick, so TNT all the way. Hope they know how to light the fuse. Even more frenzied gunners that dominate medium range, act as AA turrets (you don't want to waste 120 VPs per round to keep your plane alive, do you) and sticking TNTs to your tank.

Soldier: Class most depending on the custom weaponry: short range SMG, VLR pistol and grenade. Without these 3 things soldier becomes a joke. So if you want to continue dealing decent damage, get some shiny coins. Worst situation possible, don't you think?
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01-12-2009, 02:57 PM | Post: #82
apocs 
you'll say the vp were just sitting in the bank but when you lvl up around 20 and are on the almost impossible missions vp don't roll in that much.... I think the pricing is extreme and at the least be cut back some. ppl ask me why you play a game where you buy the advantage over other ppl and I would say no you buy them with points earned in game. that is the appeal... this new vp system really forces you to buy it with cash or play nonstop. and Ive spent money on this game probably spend more but doesn't feel good to have to rather then want to

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01-12-2009, 02:58 PM | Post: #83
h4nk 
New Items in store are great! Got me a Washer for only 379€ now... wheres adblock in the frontend? Any Mods available?

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01-12-2009, 02:58 PM | Post: #84
Vrub 
Quote:What special occasion? A candlelightdiner with a royal? This is a SHOOTER! It happens every third time, that I use a bandage and someone shoots me from far away and interupts the healing... And cheaters make it even harder to get healed in peace... This is the worst thing about the update. The weapons may be acceptable, but this... this is a big advantage for rich kids. That way I can flush my money down the toilet. Or at least burn something with it!

I would have no problem to pay for weapons, but in the moment not even for that, cause this game is a CHEATERPARADISE!

Agree agree agree,

Just what I want is the ability to use bandages and wrenches when I want and not on special occasions!
I understand the price increase for VP but within reasonable limits and not 1000%.
Now every gunner and mando with real cash will be better than others because he will be able to heal itself ...

No runing around and screamin "I need medic" 50xtimes!

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01-12-2009, 02:59 PM | Post: #85
RoTide 
In Response to a post by HelloAndy in another thread: http://www.battlefieldheroes.com/forum/s...?tid=89471

(01-12-2009 08:44 AM)HelloAndy Wrote:  
(01-12-2009 08:24 AM)MattyG Wrote:  Do you know if the prices are going to be fixed or not?

Fixed isn't a term I would use, but it's highly likely they will be adjusted as we've continued to change the ratio between free/vp/bf since the beginning of the game. Comparing to other games out there, ranging from Windows games to Facebook games, we've had waaay low price/effort to get access to all of the cool content without barely even trying.

It should be possible to play and enjoy the game for free (which you can, the default clothes are a bit dull, but the default set of weapons are good and leathal). A more active player should be rewarded with enough VP to use a few none-standard items (here we might need more tweaking) either for a couple of days, like over the weekend, or be able to keep using some of them. And if you wanna have imba looks and a great weapon unlimited, then you should be able to buy this with a small and affordable amount of BF (we lowered this even more now).

First, I want to thank you for opening up the communication lines between the community and EA again. It's been sorely lacking....

Respectfully, with regards to your comparing this game to others.... Your opinion is more than biased so of course you're going to say this game is the best. But as a casual gamer and an outside observer (and player) of multiple "free to play" games, I can _easily_ state this is the _most expensive_ free to play game I've _ever_ played.

Since you want to compare it to Facebook games, I could easily list 5 games right now that don't stack the deck so badly (HUGE VP cost increase forcing you to buy VP boosts or forgo VP items alltogether) against "in game credits" that they basically tell you to _purchase_ the buyable items. I just never see that. And frankly, if a game did do that, I can guarantee you, facebook fans would find another game like it that doesn't do that to their customers/players.

But enough comparing, since that is hardly the point.

There are two main issues with the recent "patch".

1) Huge VP price increase.

This, honestly, feels like nothing more than a "too many people are able to freeload off of VP items/guns/widgets so we're going to jack the prices so high that they are all but unobtainable". I honestly feel this is an attempt to price people out of VP items so they are "encouraged" to purchase the same items with Battlefunds (whether it's the straight up BF version or through VP boosts).

Again, it sincerely feels like you guys have lost touch with what a "Free to Play" game is. It seems DICE/EA has lost its way and while I can't say this game was going to float on the income it was generating, I can _guarantee_ you that making a _free_ game tedious to play (grindy) or forcing everyone to fork over real money will kill off the population. Yes, you will keep some hardcores around or those with too much invested already, but the simple fact is, if I can't tell my friend, with a straight face, that this is a free to play game, they will walk away.

In the world of games that you pay for, honestly, there are much better alternatives.

2) With regards to the new shotguns and now the new knife, I have multiple problems with these "uber" weapons.

First and foremost. One of the _basic_ _principles_ of this game was that there would be _zero_ advantage to those who purchase items. It was even stated, publicly (of which you can find multiple youtube videos of multiple DICE employees) that purchasable items would only be for appearance and not to give you an advantage.

The Shotgun give you a critical shot increase and more ammo per clip. Those that _purchase_ this item have an advantage over those that don't. Simply can't be refuted.

-- Continued Below --

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Huge Nerfs, Huge Buffs, Perpetual Beta, Re-releasing "Exclusive" Content Money Grabbing, Paid-for Advantages, Rental Server Admin Rights Revoked, Hackers Everywhere. Do you need more reasons to dislike EA?
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01-12-2009, 03:00 PM | Post: #86
RoTide 
**NOTE** - I know these items can technically be bought with VP, but they are priced so ridiculously high that noone will be able to keep the weapon for long. It's so prohibitively expensive that you will easily only be able to purchase it for only a fraction of the time you'll actually devote to grinding out the VP. For illustrative purposes, it would take multiple days of grinding VP to be able to purchase the weapon for _1_ day of play.

Now I see that a new knife was released. It increases your knifing range and apparently more average damage per hit. Obviously, again, this is a straight up advantage for those who purchase it. You can't refute that those without it will be at a straight disadvantage to those that have it. Again, providing an in game advantage to those that choose to buy it.

What's worse is, people have been complaining about the knife for ages now. I honestly believe you guys have purposely kept the knife weak just so you could release this one. Purposely gimping the regular knife to near useless at times just to make a sale now.

And I'm sure tomorrow and the next day you'll be releasing more weapons. Giving more advantage to those with more disposable income.

Now, I get it, you guys either need, or want, more money. I understand how money motivates companies to do things. But to be frank, especially considering the revolt that's currently underway, you _have_ to see that this has been bad for business.

I'd even go so far as to say that you're going to lose more money in the long run by alienating your playerbase than you'll get in new sales. I mean, lets be honest here. EA/DICE has already proven they are willing to break their cardinal rules just to bring up their bottom line. How do you hope to keep any sort of respect as a company?

As a once paying customer, I honestly have to tell you I have _zero_ confidence in DICE or EA at this point. It's no secret that EA has done some shady things in the past, even to their employees (google how EA had a lawsuit brought against them by their own employees as they forced overtime but refused to pay for it). But I had the benefit of never being one of those hurt by company policies and decisions. Now I have. Now I've seen what you're capable of and I submit that we haven't seen the full extent of what you're willing to do for more profit.

In short, this _free_ to play game has just gotten very expensive for a lot of players. Both in time (grinding VP), and in monetary terms (forcing the buying of VP boosts or new weapons just to be on the _same_ level as others).

Just in case you guys forgot. The whole point of a free to play game is to be inviting and provide incentives to partake in micro transactions. At this time, you're not inviting at all. The prospect of grinding tons of VP just to use a weapon and the fact that you're breaking your own philosophy in the name of profit just turns me, and many others off. Again, this free to play game has now become very _expensive_.

As a customer who has most definitely given you guys some of my money, I ask you, as a company, to reconsider what you're doing. While it is most definitely too late to change my mind or heart in this matter, if you want this game to survive, let alone thrive, you need to reevaluate what your philosophies are for this game.

You have lost your way.

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Huge Nerfs, Huge Buffs, Perpetual Beta, Re-releasing "Exclusive" Content Money Grabbing, Paid-for Advantages, Rental Server Admin Rights Revoked, Hackers Everywhere. Do you need more reasons to dislike EA?
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01-12-2009, 03:00 PM | Post: #87
DarkKamil 
Please give back old prices!

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01-12-2009, 03:01 PM | Post: #88
JxL 
(01-12-2009 02:50 PM)Vielwerth Wrote:  Can someone explain why this happened?

(30-11-2009 03:59 PM)BenCousins Wrote:  Our analysis of the VP economy showed us that people had lots of unused VP, which told us the prices for VP items were too low - hence the increases in VP pricing today.

I think I understand the logic behind it - Loads of unused VP, so let's up the prices to reduce that pool of unused VP - But surely, loads of unused VP means there's nothing to use that VP on.
I look at the store - most items require Battlefunds, not VP. I think the solution is to make some BF-only items available for VP. That will reduce your pool of unused VP.
In fact, why not make everything in the store available for 1 week or 1 month for VP, and unlimited for BF? When I see something I want, I'll NEVER choose to spend money for an item that lasts for a limited period of time. I'll ALWAYS spend a few more BF and have that item for unlimited use, and I bet most other BF-users are the same.

Same goes for me and bold part makes more sense than Ben's quote! Still don't think that will happen as there are probably losts of players that also but the non-permanent bf items.

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01-12-2009, 03:01 PM | Post: #89
Rockboi 
(01-12-2009 02:50 PM)Vielwerth Wrote:  Can someone explain why this happened?

(30-11-2009 03:59 PM)BenCousins Wrote:  Our analysis of the VP economy showed us that people had lots of unused VP, which told us the prices for VP items were too low - hence the increases in VP pricing today.

I think I understand the logic behind it - Loads of unused VP, so let's up the prices to reduce that pool of unused VP - But surely, loads of unused VP means there's [b]nothing to [u]use that VP on.[/u][/b]
I look at the store - most items require Battlefunds, not VP. I think the solution is to make some BF-only items available for VP. That will reduce your pool of unused VP.
In fact, why not make everything in the store available for 1 week or 1 month for VP, and unlimited for BF? When I see something I want, I'll NEVER choose to spend money for an item that lasts for a limited period of time. I'll ALWAYS spend a few more BF and have that item for unlimited use, and I bet most other BF-users are the same.

This is the true

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01-12-2009, 03:01 PM | Post: #90
B3H3MOTH 
Good Point, Vielwerth. And also look at this, when the Backscratcher on my gunner expire I will have enough money to replace it, ONCE, as well as my rpg. That's all I get, Assuming I wasn't able to buy battlefunds, that would be game over for me. Wich is ridiculous. I've worked my way up to Lvl 17 by now, and an ELO of 1140, and this is what I get for it? And other than that I have spent 10 bucks on BF to buy some clothes, unlimited. Now I am ashamed of myself for doing so. I supported the team, and though it may be a small amount of money,it is money I thought was well spent at the time. Now I think it isn't anymore, since I should have kept it in order to play the game some more, you know buying bandages and all that. I always paid for one month guns with VP and the next month I was going to get them unlimited for BF, but now I don't feel like it anymore, since doing so would just be like handing my money out to random people on the street, it would be gone, and i qould still have to buy some BF, let's say, every month to afford my widgets.

I can barely cope, and I was ready to invest a lot more in this game since the new payment options, but how do you expect people who can't, won't, or aren't allowed to (after all we have a rather young community) buy BF. Are you jsut gonna tell them to sod off, because the free game is no longer a free game?

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01-12-2009, 03:02 PM | Post: #91
L1m1t3 
i really want an answer...

this game is not only available in the U.S.. for example.. im from argentina.. and we dont use dollars.. we use "pesos",, and for us.. 1 dollar is 4 pesos.. so, its expensive for us to buy bf,, and i cant play all the day for winning some vp,, im agree about the increase of the value.. but not to much... before u could buy a gun for 50 vp the week... and now (im not sure) is 150 vp the day ????,,

ITS CHEAPER FOR PEOPLE THAT PAY... ITS NOT FOR WHO DOESNT AND CANT...

think about it.. i dont pay.. but i told to my friends of this game.. and they are playing now.. and some of them buy bf... what do u want ?,, all of us buying bf ?
give us the opportunity to buy weapons for unlimited time in vp,
its imposible to manage 2 characters in one account if u dont have bf...

if u know how.. please.. GIVE ME AN ANSWER !!!
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01-12-2009, 03:02 PM | Post: #92
Mdog73 
BF people will have an advantage that is a problem. It completely destroys the biggest selling point of this game.

If you want to increase VP cost you need to do it slowly, like by 10 or 20% not 10 fold. If I can't buy bandages with VP for all my warriors I don't see much use in playing since i will be at a huge disadvantage. I tried playing tonight with no bandages and it was no fun. I won't be spending BF on these widgets ever even thoughh I have 2600 BF sitting there. i will spend BF on clothes and maybe weapons if I see one I really want to make permanent, but if it is too much money for those too I will be out. I have enough widgets to play my gunner and commandos for a few hours each after that I'll be stuck to soldiers for a while then... I guess I'm out.

Revert the widget prices back and find a spot in the middle for the weapons. I know if they increased by more than 20% I would have toons without gear and I would not be able to play them.

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01-12-2009, 03:03 PM | Post: #93
msc204 
(01-12-2009 01:58 PM)LoL2Much Wrote:  Viva Revolution was more annyoing then the price changes actualy...And why isant this thread flooded with posts yet?

Because it'll prolly prove to be fruitless, and we may get the same "positive" response.

This, however, is my opinion. Your "analysis" was right, but your resolution to unused VP was outright foolish. Why? Simple. In the past, those of us who didn't buy BF for every character relied on VP to keep stacking rents on clothing items and weapons. This, I have found in-game, is a MAJORITY of players.

However, now you've raised the prices of VP items to such rediculouse hights, you've not only DISCOURAGED people from playing the game to earn VP, but also discouraging them from buying BFs even more since now you've practically made it to where you NEED them to get half decent junk, where as before, VP was readily available, and they would use it.

In conclusion, and to sum it up for those who use "tl;dr", Your analysis was partially correct, your solution was 100% wrong.

Respond to this if you wish.

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01-12-2009, 03:05 PM | Post: #94
Rockingdemon 
Thx for the topic.
Well guess my sig says it all?

In short: the new VP prices are outrageous. I've got 7500 VP and I'm not spending even one just out of principle. Also I will never buy BF cause they didn't even announced the new pricingsystem beforehand and didn't ask the community's opinion. Plus the word greedyness comes to my mind when I think about this update. I would really like to test the new weapons but I'm not able to cause it's too expensive for me. I'm considering to quit the game when all my bandages run out.

So that's my opinion. Smile

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01-12-2009, 03:06 PM | Post: #95
Funk001 
(01-12-2009 03:02 PM)Mdog73 Wrote:  BF people will have an advantage that is a problem. It completely destroys the biggest selling point of this game.

EXACTLY....

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01-12-2009, 03:06 PM | Post: #96
Commander..Rob 
omfg 450 VP for 3 days weapon ???? before 1 month was 120 or so ..... where is the sense ?
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01-12-2009, 03:07 PM | Post: #97
Hiorthen 
I don't really mind about this I still love the game and the new weapons but I'm not so happy about the new prices

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01-12-2009, 03:10 PM | Post: #98
DTCDarkSideRaver 
Hello there Heroes, devs,

I have my own clan since 2005 and i must say that i never have ever seen such a disgrace to a game before. We love playing BF-Heroes and support the development of it. I myself have bought over 155,- euro's in BF. Not to mention the rest of my VIP's that are in my clan (paying members)
We don't complain about the old sales prices. They were fine.

But now the gameplay has been roughed out.

Weaklings will be:
People and members from my clan who are underaged and those that don't play often.
Have far less VP to spend. Some of them don't have the extra income to spend on BF.
They are the weak link and will be killed far to easy and the game will become a dead end. they will also lack the better weaponry. They who in the future could submit more funds to BF-H and my clan will just find a nother game to play. Or go back to there consoles.

The strong will be:
Everyone who has extra funds for BF and will spend it on the widgets/weapons ect.

This is a system that will make unfair play in the servers if it stays so for too long. Meaning that only the hardcore gamers with income that they spend on BF will still be playing this game day in day out. But the people that are new and/or lack BF will not play often and curse the hell out of the game getting killed all that often. Because the overpowered Heroes will be walking around like Rambo's shooting pink bunnys in a barrel.

I play daily a couple of hours and have 6 heroes that i am lvl'ing up so that we can do clanbattles. We have rented a server for 6 months. And we were planning to stick to this game.

It seems if there is no real possitive change to the game as it is now. That we will abort and go back to America's Army where we started 4 years ago as our first choice game.

We still offer our members UT2004 server and BF1942-DC and Pirates server to play on.
So we still have enough space to breath and play but not with as much fun as on BF-H.

We hope that you reconsider the pricing and level it out a bit more. As i am playing with 6 heroes i run through my VP's FAST! i don't save them up. I use them and in one match i use 10 to 20 widgets easy. even this would be a nut cracker for me purchasing BF.

I understand the point where there must be some additional income but this is an insane U-turn in the wrong direction. Anyways for me it is still good news... You raise the prices too high. We stop with BF-Heroes as a main game and my VIP'z will donate more to my clan for other services to rent. Meaning more income for me Big Grin

GO EA ! GO ! Make my christmas verry merry Wink

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01-12-2009, 03:12 PM | Post: #99
Rockboi 
I give my last vp to super knife and I maxed the poisoned blade super knife really makes much and much more damage than the normal knife and has more long range... My snipers time is finishing and default sniper really sucks when we compare to other snipers and when the super pipquaks popper comes out bf users will really become very advantaged I bought 350 lvl 5 bandages and wrench before this update....

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01-12-2009, 03:13 PM | Post: #100
Ice_Ico 
i won't play the game untill the weapons cost it's back but still i will keep a look at it

EA= BIG F**** FAIL
Atleast change the prices
450VP-10 days
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