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01-12-2009, 12:19 PM | Post: #41
Ceuse 
You Goodman and all the other Devs seem to totaly miss the point here. We here in the Forum and most of the Players who stay (more then 1 day Actual Playtime) Had gladly purchased Bf and wanted to suport you guys. I for myself where totaly ready to get the new guns with Bf since i was using my Vp for Wrenches all the time anyway.
The real Point is that you promised that there will be never be an advantage through Money. This may sound strange for you guys but thats what most of the People want to suport at the first Place. Aside from the total trust break you gave us with this update there are some real dangers upcoming for this game from this

New players as you said maybe able to play for 3-4 Lvls with the cheap weopons and maybe even be able to afford the pricy ones once. But as soon as they realise they have to spend Money to get an advanege most will surely quit. If you check your statistics you will see that most of the longer Playing members (1 day and above ingame time, there will allways be just some bot/1time tried and deleted accounts) have bought bf. the longer they played more % of the players purchased bf. This will slowly dry out because less players will get to the point of playing 1 day and above because they will realise they have to spend money to keep up and are just not drawn into the game enough to do so.

We the old and regular Paying customers want and Equal game. I for myself wanted beside from looking special of cause SUPORT the idea of equality that ben stated in his early interviews. i liked it that i am not better on the field then a lvl 2 non paying customer (expept for abilites of cause). That was the charm of the game.
check your bf incomes the next they and hopefully you will realise how big of a mistake you made

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(This post was last modified: 01-12-2009 12:26 PM by Ceuse.)
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01-12-2009, 12:23 PM | Post: #42
-.]oNe[.- 
I agree with just about everything. BUT: Widgets need to be VP only. Guns should be 450VP for 3 days 1050 for a week. DO that and i am perfectly happy. Not really a big deal to me, but to others, i buy BF and will be buying the guns unlim, but bandages need to be put back to VP. (a higher cost of VP for sure) regarding the Fireproof underwear and that tonic, the underwear are stupid (soldiers ftl with that) but i love the tonic idea, but it should have a 1 minute (yes 1 minute is a long time) cooldown.

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01-12-2009, 12:31 PM | Post: #43
Mdog73 
Poor noobs are at a huge disadvantage now. how can they even try anything out if they have to spend all their VP on widgets. I won't even try to get any more friends to try this out. I think you've really killed off new players.

You need to change the widgets back at least and tweeak the weapon prices. if you want to make the weapons cost more VP thatn they were fine but the cost now is prohobitive to people playing.

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(This post was last modified: 01-12-2009 12:32 PM by Mdog73.)
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01-12-2009, 12:31 PM | Post: #44
Ceuse 
(01-12-2009 12:23 PM)-.0x5d;oNe0x5b;.- Wrote:  I agree with just about everything. BUT: Widgets need to be VP only. Guns should be 450VP for 3 days 1050 for a week. DO that and i am perfectly happy. Not really a big deal to me, but to others, i buy BF and will be buying the guns unlim, but bandages need to be put back to VP. (a higher cost of VP for sure) regarding the Fireproof underwear and that tonic, the underwear are stupid (soldiers ftl with that) but i love the tonic idea, but it should have a 1 minute (yes 1 minute is a long time) cooldown.

too expenisv. i simply want that they keep there core promise : there will never be an actual playing advantage for bf players

idea for the bandages though : return to the old vp stile and offer a unlimited bandage/wrench for 1400 bf each. normal reuse timer just unlimited uses. you will sell alot of these and it wouldnt be a advantage for the normal guys.
the weapons need to change though. everything must be affordable to get montly with a resonable amout of vp , yes also the new weapons! equality is the key we want. you can allways make shiny new bf weapons no one has a problem with that. but the core needs to stay intact : no unfair advantages through money

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01-12-2009, 12:35 PM | Post: #45
Bauzi 
This game gives and advantage for BF buyers. You can't deny it. Look at the Fireproof Pants in the PTE!

Here it comes:
Some of us loved the game because of this equality. I totaly stood behind the way DICE financed the game. The parrot? Okay I can understand if you're annoyed, but new players have the chance to buy it. Yes it is a broken promise after all.

People like me spend or wanted to spend money because we love this concept. It felt great. I wanted to support it, but now: NO. Just no. It's impossible to finance a hero with VP only and I better don't speak of 3 heroes or more.

You will loose this players. The servers will get more empty because of the matchmakeing. The servers will close. You loose money and than you loose even more paying players and that's it.

Everything DICE, but not this way! I even was willed to stare at an add for 10 seconds before I could play. Yes I really would have done that.

I can't imagine that you wouldn't have a possitve income with all those servers and if you have debts: Hahaha. Just wait for March when your new blockbuster game Bad Company 2 is released. I already played it and I can't wait to preorder it. You made so many things right with Bad Company 1 and 2. Why do you fail so much here?

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01-12-2009, 12:40 PM | Post: #46
[edo]Nils 
(01-12-2009 11:26 AM)Goodman Wrote:  Cavan, you left out shed-loads of free-to-play MMOs, which use the Micro-Transaction model. They're not subscription based, they're entirely free.

I've played a lot of them and it all works the same; you enjoy it for a relatively long time for free, but if you decide you really like the game and want to keep playing, you do get really, really tempted to buy the occasional item here or there. We're not any different; you play, you level up, you collect VP and you can buy stuff, try it out, get a feel for yourself whether you will be playing this game longer or not. Then you reach a certain level and you pretty much have to decide: "Do I throw in a couple bucks to get myself some stuff and support the dev team or do I move on to the next game?"

This is where I think the men in black want to go.

You can play for free: yes
You can get cool stuff, for free: yes
You can play forever and not pay a cent: unlikely

The problem are not the clothes, but the bandages and wrenched. IF you want to play in the "higher" grounds you will need to buy those for BF. And I as example use like 200 bandages a day, that would be 140 BF a day, playing 5 day's a week would be 5 euro a week, wich resulst in 20 euro a month ONLY for bandages.

If I also want wrenches, we put like 25% on top of it and we are at 25 euro, and this should be a onetime buy game as you just stated? Dodgy

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01-12-2009, 12:41 PM | Post: #47
Ceuse 
please coment on my post goodman/any other dev. i still get the feeling that you totoaly miss the point of our complaint. i think i stand for most of the previously paying customers so an answer would be nice, a real answer not some : "we just need more money" type, i think you would get that easier in other ways.

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01-12-2009, 12:43 PM | Post: #48
Dr. Rabbit 
(01-12-2009 11:26 AM)Goodman Wrote:  You can play for free: yes
You can get cool stuff, for free: yes
You can play forever and not pay a cent: unlikely

So, let me get this straight.

For casual players, BFH devolved from a Free-to-play game to a severly watered down demo where you have to grind for DAYS at a time just to afford basic necessities like bandages, wrenches, and alternate weapons. You can only hold your own with the vanilla weapons for so long.

So...unless you buy battlefunds, you will be stuck grinding for astronomically long amounts of time just to rent a jacket for three days. Use an emote for one day. Or, God forbid, rent a superweapon.

You pretty much alienated every casual player and many of your paying players.

This update is ruining the game and the community.

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(This post was last modified: 01-12-2009 12:47 PM by Dr. Rabbit.)
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01-12-2009, 01:17 PM | Post: #49
motzelman 
i hardly aggree. i have paid more money in this game as in every othergame i eve rplayed. but this is unfair to all the other guys.
and the BF- bandages are unfair to EVERYONE.
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01-12-2009, 01:27 PM | Post: #50
Wilart 
(01-12-2009 11:26 AM)Goodman Wrote:  Cavan, you left out shed-loads of free-to-play MMOs, which use the Micro-Transaction model. They're not subscription based, they're entirely free.

I've played a lot of them and it all works the same; you enjoy it for a relatively long time for free, but if you decide you really like the game and want to keep playing, you do get really, really tempted to buy the occasional item here or there. We're not any different; you play, you level up, you collect VP and you can buy stuff, try it out, get a feel for yourself whether you will be playing this game longer or not. Then you reach a certain level and you pretty much have to decide: "Do I throw in a couple bucks to get myself some stuff and support the dev team or do I move on to the next game?"

This is where I think the men in black want to go.

You can play for free: yes
You can get cool stuff, for free: yes
You can play forever and not pay a cent: unlikely
you ever played perfect world, or runes of magic ? its possiple for players to exchange ingame money for cash shop money with other players. this here is just a joke, how long you think will you earn cash if all have unlimted stuff , and they cant find any full servers to play...
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01-12-2009, 02:23 PM | Post: #51
iamjayjay 
(01-12-2009 11:57 AM)Goodman Wrote:  There are enough good players who will pwn anyone only using the simplest, cheapest gun there is Tongue

Goodmans reasoning throughout this thread is acceptable, but becomes flawed here.

There are enough good players who will pwn anyone using a simple and cheap gun, but only because they use their resources more effectively, or in other words, they play the game better than their opponent within the set of game rules. This doesn't hold up when two people use resources equally effective (hence, two equally good players). The people who pay up will have this tiny advantage and by definition perform better as their reload times decrease and their overall fire-rate improves.

To keep this game alive EA needs paying customers, and a constant amount of them too. Because a number of people stop paying for whatever reason at a given time, they need to replenish this part of the userbase continuously. Perfectly understandable, but I don't understand why this should be done by making the main game objective money-influenced, even by the tiniest bit. It makes the game less appealing for potentially paying customers. Why? Not because you charge money for some aspects of the game, but because you change the rules of the game!

EA is moving onto a slippery slope. If you put a money factor somewhere into the balance of the main game objective (killing the opponent), which happened for the first time in this game sometime during the last couple of days, you more or less create three games within one. One called non-paying vs. non-paying, one called paying vs. paying and finally one that is called non-paying vs. paying. While the first two have the same set of rules for both players, the latter one hasn't. Nobody likes to play a game with unfair rules, and if I was (on the losing side) in such game, I'd probably quit.

I really doubt making the game rules imbalanced (no matter by what amount) is the way to go to keep the game alive long term!


Update: I copied this to the main discussion thread on the recent changes

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(This post was last modified: 01-12-2009 02:46 PM by iamjayjay.)
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01-12-2009, 02:43 PM | Post: #52
B3H3MOTH 
(01-12-2009 11:26 AM)Goodman Wrote:  Cavan, you left out shed-loads of free-to-play MMOs, which use the Micro-Transaction model. They're not subscription based, they're entirely free.

I've played a lot of them and it all works the same; you enjoy it for a relatively long time for free, but if you decide you really like the game and want to keep playing, you do get really, really tempted to buy the occasional item here or there. We're not any different; you play, you level up, you collect VP and you can buy stuff, try it out, get a feel for yourself whether you will be playing this game longer or not. Then you reach a certain level and you pretty much have to decide: "Do I throw in a couple bucks to get myself some stuff and support the dev team or do I move on to the next game?"

This is where I think the men in black want to go.

You can play for free: yes
You can get cool stuff, for free: yes
You can play forever and not pay a cent: unlikely

The points I highlited in your post, Goodman, are the points that I think don't work that way anymore, beacause if you want to try out this game wether you like it, there is no way you are going to get around buying, for example bandages, so if we have a quick maths lesson: If we assume you get 100VP per levelup, that means you need quite a few levelups to buy a weapon (two if you're a gunner or soldier), bandages and wrenches (assuming you use them), ten bandages are easily used up in one, maybe two games, weapons expire sfter 1 or 3 days, which means from that point on you are either back to standard, or you have to buy BF. Basically you made the game that was once free 2 play, into a a demo: you play for a while, then from a certain point, you will have to pay in order to upgrade to a game that actually works properly.

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01-12-2009, 02:56 PM | Post: #53
Vicestab 
(01-12-2009 11:26 AM)Goodman Wrote:  Cavan, you left out shed-loads of free-to-play MMOs, which use the Micro-Transaction model. They're not subscription based, they're entirely free.

I've played a lot of them and it all works the same; you enjoy it for a relatively long time for free, but if you decide you really like the game and want to keep playing, you do get really, really tempted to buy the occasional item here or there. We're not any different; you play, you level up, you collect VP and you can buy stuff, try it out, get a feel for yourself whether you will be playing this game longer or not. Then you reach a certain level and you pretty much have to decide: "Do I throw in a couple bucks to get myself some stuff and support the dev team or do I move on to the next game?"

This is where I think the men in black want to go.

You can play for free: yes
You can get cool stuff, for free: yes
You can play forever and not pay a cent: unlikely

Hence "EA failed".

Because there are many MMOs using micro-transactions that do not take it this far. And many more MMOs that are simply free and get content updates regularly.

Doing this move at the same time you release new, better weapons. lol intelligence.

As far as I understood you DO have your wages covered (you produce more than you lose). Just because EA is laying off employees and cutting by it's roots most franchises doesn't mean we have to pay. Capitalism. Never satisfied.

» New matchmaking system
» Weapons/widgets pricing
» Potion/BB-proof pants
» New map called "SS"

WARNING/SPOILER: MORE INCOMING EPIC FAILS SOON.
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01-12-2009, 03:12 PM | Post: #54
Chronisch 
(01-12-2009 11:26 AM)Goodman Wrote:  Cavan, you left out shed-loads of free-to-play MMOs, which use the Micro-Transaction model. They're not subscription based, they're entirely free.

I've played a lot of them and it all works the same; you enjoy it for a relatively long time for free, but if you decide you really like the game and want to keep playing, you do get really, really tempted to buy the occasional item here or there. We're not any different; you play, you level up, you collect VP and you can buy stuff, try it out, get a feel for yourself whether you will be playing this game longer or not. Then you reach a certain level and you pretty much have to decide: "Do I throw in a couple bucks to get myself some stuff and support the dev team or do I move on to the next game?"

This is where I think the men in black want to go.

You can play for free: yes
You can get cool stuff, for free: yes
You can play forever and not pay a cent: unlikely

O come on Goodman.
You know you guys are wrong.. but you are to affraid to admit it

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(This post was last modified: 01-12-2009 03:17 PM by Chronisch.)
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01-12-2009, 03:21 PM | Post: #55
ShadeShooter
Ok Official Discussion Topic has been made, please place all your opinions there in order for us (The Community Team) to streamline your thoughts, feelings, emotions and opinions about the update for the team in our reports. Thank you
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2009 03:40 PM by ShadeShooter.)
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