Soldier Discussion

[Wormrose]

A lot of these things have probably already been suggested, this is just my 2BFs:

In general:
When I choose my abilities I want to feel this: I wish I had more Hero Points. Then I could use that ability, and that one, and that one...
I don't mind if you increase the maximum level above 30 as long as you don't get any more Hero Points, but then I see little point in raising the level cap, so please just don't. I approve of releasing expensive and fun/silly widgets, but not new abilities (unless it replaces an old ability, PB I'm looking at you).

I also think that you should increase the magazine and/or the accuracy of the midrange pistol, since it only deals decent damage at midrange anyway.

Soldier:
GS: Throw on ability activation. Explode upon contact.
BB: It's annoying but I don't know how to balance it properly, maybe make it deal reduced damage if applied from far away.
BS: Set some sort of max damage you can take from this ability, like 50-70% of your maximum health. This should be a hard limit, so damage from multiple blasts does not stack but the explosion power should (so you can still throw tanks over half the map). This means you can kill with it but not instant kill.
SS: The benefit of raising it above level 1 is too small. Allowing you to see tanks and some indicator of your enemies'/allies' health (red/yellow/green) perhaps?

HATE Wrote:Having BS instant kill people when stacked is something we will be removing. Though the 'push-force' won't be altered.

Ah, great minds think alike

Along with these changes I've suggested changes for commandos and gunners in their respective thread:
Commando
Gunner

[Tomonor]

Sixth Sense: Hmm, I would like to be able to see the TTs or any other explosives when Sixth Sense is activated.
Also, as we know, Sixth Sense as a maxed out ability is really rare. Not like it's a wrong thing this way, but if you manage to alter some things soldier gameplay-wise, maybe it would make more sense to level it.

Burning Bullets: Hmmm, well we all know the hate that sent is sent towards it if an lr smg camper is using it, and yeah, it bothers me too. Only those can evade this hate, who can afford them fireproof panties. My idea is to nerf the range of the burning bullets, so you have to be in a set range if you want someone to light on fire. Now the part that would prevent this ability's camping behavior is, no matter how many HP you put in it, the range won't be buffed. So yeah, that's one nerfed ability I'm looking forward to.

Blasting Strike: Unpredictable. Fast. Silent. Deadly. These are the properties we could give this ability atm. How about if you added an effect to it when activated, similar to the CM's blast, but white and a bit more transparent. About the damage, we know how unpredictable and random it is, sometimes it you whack that mando in the ceiling but only a single point of damage is being dealt to him, and sometimes u instakill him. I don't say it should be nerfed, rather reworked. The damage dealt should be different for every classes, and every class should lose a certain percent of damage dependant on what blasting force hit him and where he ended up. Since I'm no expert in coding, I can't really tell you what to do with it, yet I can tell that how wrong it is currently.

Combat Medicine: Hmmm, this ability is fine, as far as I can tell. I like the slowmo disqualifier feature you are going to implent to it.

Grenade Spam: Once again, I'm not sure what to say about this ability. It works fine for me at lvl 5, I normally throw my nades after the hidden mandos behind them walls and fences. I like if I manage to kill them with it, they all go like "WTF!".
I also like the idea that throwing it should be instant. But if that won't become true, at least get rid of the disappearance of the held GS, if you get into the falling state.

Misc: At the moment, soldier is the slowest class around. But that's not all, every classes get anti-soldier widgets in the past (fireproof pants, tonics), so I say: Let them soldiers run too!
It could be done a few ways.
-First is that, the soldier class speed would be dependant on what weapon you are carrying atm. If you are holding a nade, you are running pretty fast. If you are holding the SMG, you are running semifast. Etc.
-Second, how about a charge-up thingie. It would act just like the TF2 sniper's rifle: being in scope charges the sniper up dealing multiple damage. Well, soldiers could get a charger on the hud, and until it depleets you are running at a decent speed. If it depleets, you will run slower, and you have to stop for a lil to charge it up. Crouching would make the chargeup faster. Anyway, this would be a "natural" ability or feature for soldiers, so you don't have to activate it, and whenever you are running, it will automatically charge you... As long as it depleets.
-Third, well widgets of course. I know the royals got one with the cpt.royal boots, but that's not enough. Both sides should get it then, and it should count as a survival widget (so lower prices and shouldn't be connected to any premium customization item)

Another thing: Soldiers should be able to see the health of the teammates, either normally or through an ability.

[SweetName]

Just, for the record.

If I remember right, the GS cancel when falling animation thing...

Is a result of the fix they did to prevent the old throw 2 kegs when falling thing. (Anyone in CB remember that? If you timed things right during a fall you used to be able to double up abilties?)



Anyhow...

(23-09-2011 12:49 PM)HATE Wrote:  I love how the soldier forum is where people say "mmmm maybe nerf one of our skills or change this one thing very slightly"

Making more soldier builds viable is a goal - however soldiers are difficult because they sit on such a fine line between roles.

Thats just the thing of it though.


It's hard to give suggestions for soldiers... because the soldier balance is so dependant on the way OTHER classes work.


Soldier gameplay and loadouts have, since the GS nerf, been based almost entirely around how the OTHER classes are playing the game.

(Example: We used to use SR-shotgun + SR-SMG and fight at short/medium range. Gunners got buffed up, so soldiers swapped out the SG, got the VLR pistol instead, stacked BS5 and play mid/long range instead.)

What I'm saying is...

Before really making any changes to the soldiers...

Commandos need to be fixed so that they're actually in line with the other two classes. (No, I'm not talking about how noob commandos get crushed in games... although that is a problem as well.)

Something needs to be done about the pirate pistol. Giving gunners access to a sniper weapon (Reload isn't really an issue.) ... I mean really. Why did that ever happen? What positive effect did that bring to the battlefield? In what way does that help the game balance?

...

Remove random crits from pirate pistol = MUCH more balanced gun.)

[no_super]

(24-09-2011 12:29 AM)SweetName Wrote:  Remove random crits from pirate pistol = MUCH more balanced gun.)

do you mean the headshots?

[SweetName]

(24-09-2011 01:05 AM)no_super Wrote:  

(24-09-2011 12:29 AM)SweetName Wrote:  Remove random crits from pirate pistol = MUCH more balanced gun.)

do you mean the headshots?

Naw, The head shots are probably fine.

I mean the 55% chance to pull an extra 20 damage on a body shot thanks to random crits.

I think the risk v reward of the pirate pistol would be MUCH better balanced if the crits were removed.

In fact...

I would actually remove random crits AND lower the base damage... Then increase the headshot damage.

I'm fine with a 1 shot gun rewarding accuracy. I have a problem with it ALSO rewarding Poor accuracy.

TLDR: Make it so PP stands for PooP gun when you miss the head.

[Frenchyfry]

PP nerf nao!

also, make it so you can't use BB with the lrsmg. would make it much more balanced.
reduce the spread of grenade spam, it's much too random.

[XXXKruszakus]

Nerf the range of burning bullets!!!! OMG that is a GENIOUS idea! Seriously.

And maybe recuce it's accuracy - because quite often I don't get damaged from direct bullet hits, but I still get lit on. Being killed by a guy who don't deserve a kill is just a sad thing to cope with in BFH.

[The_WUUSTER]

(24-09-2011 01:47 AM)Frenchyfry Wrote:  PP nerf nao!

also, make it so you can't use BB with the lrsmg. would make it much more balanced.
reduce the spread of grenade spam, it's much too random.

You still mad at my fast rifle??

Down with BB noobs!

[Frenchyfry]

(24-09-2011 03:05 AM)The_WUUSTER Wrote:  You still mad at my fast rifle??

this is the soldier discussion thread, silly

[Mc4]

pp nerf- increase the deviation? its not supposed to be a long range weapon, range says "moderate"

(24-09-2011 01:18 AM)SweetName Wrote:  I would actually remove random crits AND lower the base damage... Then increase the headshot damage.

Sounds okay, but do it gradually each update as to not cause too much complaining in the forums, or nerf it too much like as usually happens

(24-09-2011 01:47 AM)Frenchyfry Wrote:  PP nerf nao!

also, make it so you can't use BB with the lrsmg. would make it much more balanced.
reduce the spread of grenade spam, it's much too random.

lr smg is not unbalanced.


also, just for aesthetic purposes, how hard would it be to make the national combat medicine red, make the nat shield red, etc.?

[SweetName]

(24-09-2011 03:46 AM)Mc4 Wrote:  pp nerf- increase the deviation? its not supposed to be a long range weapon, range says "moderate"

I don't know, I'm fine with the PP serving as an anti-sniper/anti-camper gun. I'm NOT fine with it being used as a replacement shotgun.

nor with it being so rewarding to just pull out and take a random shot with at close/moderate range. (Because again, it's a myth that the PP needs to be a headshot for it to be high damage. A crit bodyshot is still 40-50... and it's a 55%crit chance.)

[zil]

The game is fine the way it is IMO. I play all classes equally.

Don't ruin the game please because of the criers.

[Mc4]

(24-09-2011 04:36 AM)SweetName Wrote:  

(24-09-2011 03:46 AM)Mc4 Wrote:  pp nerf- increase the deviation? its not supposed to be a long range weapon, range says "moderate"

I don't know, I'm fine with the PP serving as an anti-sniper/anti-camper gun. I'm NOT fine with it being used as a replacement shotgun.

nor with it being so rewarding to just pull out and take a random shot with at close/moderate range. (Because again, it's a myth that the PP needs to be a headshot for it to be high damage. A crit bodyshot is still 40-50... and it's a 55%crit chance.)

actually, i dont know why i suggested that. i bought the pp solely for the reason of countering snipers.

[Thunder168]

(24-09-2011 05:45 AM)zil Wrote:  The game is fine the way it is IMO. I play all classes equally.

Don't ruin the game please because of the criers.

+100000

[Vahvetti]

(22-09-2011 07:38 AM)HATE Wrote:  The #1 change I would like to see for soldiers in the near future is - Combat Medicine clears slow effect from keg.

Please no.


BS damage should be nerfed somehow, if that's possible.
Could you give some invisible shield for 3 seconds after getting blasted, which will reduce damage from hitting objects 75% or something like that, or is that too hard?

If that's not possible, BS cooldown should be longer.

[Lennna]

(24-09-2011 01:47 AM)Frenchyfry Wrote:  PP nerf nao!

Just remove the weapon and give those who bought it their BF back -.-

- I really like the idea of CM stopping the slow down effect. Would be great for clanwars
- BB needs a serious nerf.
- Please fix the 6S problems on low graphics. (You can't see anything through hills)
- Insta BS has to get removed completly and it deals way too much damage if the enemy hits an object or the ground in general. Is it possible to only allow double blasts btw? So you it wouldn't be able to tripple blast anymore?

@Tomonor: If you want to run faster as soldier, learn to team up with the gunners of your team. Share your abilities with them and they'll do the same. The last thing we need are more freaking widgets that allow you to buy the abilities of other classes.

PS: The "CM cancels slow down effect" should only be added if you nerf the BS at the same time. Otherwise Gunners will have a really hard time :/

[Vahvetti]

(24-09-2011 11:15 AM)Lennna Wrote:  - I really like the idea of CM stopping the slow down effect. Would be great for clanwars

Nah, it definitely wouldn't be good for CWs.
Hitting keg against good team is now already damn hard, but with perfect timing between their IEGs, by focusing to other of their gunner or throwing the keg to sides of their group, you can hit it.
So keg needs to be used tactically right on CWs, and the slow effect is often even better than making damage, for example when enemy team is running to some flag.

If heal would remove slow effect, would be same as it wouldn't exist at all on CWs.

[Jungl3]

(23-09-2011 12:49 PM)HATE Wrote:  In my mind soldiers are essentially missing two abilities - or 'type of abilities'......and we have not yet figured out the best way to solve these sorts of missing pieces.

I think personally BB is a pretty redundant skill , most players will put 1 HP max into it , though it's handy for marking snipers you still have SS and GS which can be used to the same affect.
How about replacing it with another type of grenade , maybe a Flash bang that on level 1 temporarily blinds the enemy for say 3 seconds but still allows them to see the number hits register so they are not completely helpless and can figure where you are by blind firing/spraying and praying ? Of course this would be non-stackable amongst team mates other wise you would get the gunner leg-it train effect but with blindness
I think after BS grenades are the 2nd most fun thing about soldiers and adding another would add another level of awesomeness .

But yeah I agree , soldiers do new some different abilities to bring some variations to playstyles and builds.

[Lennna]

(24-09-2011 11:24 AM)Jungl3 Wrote:  I think personally BB is a pretty redundant skill , most players will put 1 HP max into it

There are so many players around that just stay in the back to spray their lvl 5 BB and get top scores. The damage is way to high and it requires NO skill to use at all. It also makes me really mad to die because of it -.-

I see your point Vahvetti. What about making it only possible to remove it of a level 1-4 keg but disable it for lvl 5?

[Dawsta!]

(24-09-2011 10:42 AM)Thunder168 Wrote:  

(24-09-2011 05:45 AM)zil Wrote:  The game is fine the way it is IMO. I play all classes equally.

Don't ruin the game please because of the criers.

+100000

+1000000000000000

cmon guys just remove soldiers from the game!!!!111one