How I do 2 Long pistols.

[SweetName]

(18-10-2010 05:22 PM)LERN3R0S Wrote:  This is a commando abuse in my opinion Why would you choose to do the same think a soldier can do better with a class that is just no t intended to play this way?? it like making a gunner a sniper! (which you cant i am just saying it...)

Easy,

Because soldiers don't get elixer, and soldiers don't get stealth.

I tried doing 2 pistols with a soldier... and in MY experience... it works better on a commando.


Even MORE importantly... I find knifing to be a bad idea in higher level gameplay. i find sniping to be boring. So I'm leveling to 30 with the 2 pistols instead.

Plus, the commando forum insists that you can't soldier succesfully without rank 5 stealth. I'd like to prove the forum wrong. Its worked so far. You did notice I did both those rounds without dying right? Didn't use any widgets, and topped the scoreboard. That I had almost zero downtime in my gameplay?

[LERN3R0S]

'' Easy,

Because soldiers don't get elixer, and soldiers don't get stealth. ''

Since you don't use stealth at all and you insist in your gameplay its irrelevant you just trade soldiers health for ELIXIR????
-_-
idk it just sounds very, VERY bad build. But that's just me. Proof of that is that you could do the same thing with gunner , his ''leg it'' is better than elixir and since you dont use the stealth (which at level 1 is useless in infantry maps since distances are tight) there is just no reason to support this build apart from experimenting Good luck with the build though.

P.s. yes i saw the video, in the first match we do not see the final standings , in the second one you are third in kill-deaths but they both were what i call ''r4pe games''!! 36 - 0 and 28 -0 is the score of a sweeper team and a dead body team, which in simpler terms shows a good team vs a noob team.
I doubt you would survive or score as high in any given ''good'' matches with that build no matter what.

[Battelshipps]

You've managed to summarise playing with 2 long pistols pretty well, especially the stealth issue.

As I understand it, the main problem that commando players have with accepting this setup is that it takes away the level 5 stealth comfort blanket. After sneaking about with relative impunity, to be suddenly forced to rely on elixir and an itchy trigger finger can feel pretty hairy.

But at higher levels, using a knife becomes less and less viable. I'm at level 15, and have begun to use a LR/SR pistol mix, which is paying off really well. I'm tempted to use 2 LRs, but I've not been able to cure myself of the sneak & stab impulse just yet. Uber SR takes a lot more finesse (and accuracy) than a knife to get a quick kill, but something about emptying 15 bullets into a soldiers back before he can even turn around is hugely satisfying.

[SweetName]

(18-10-2010 06:20 PM)LERN3R0S Wrote:  Since you don't use stealth at all and you insist in your gameplay its irrelevant you just trade soldiers health for ELIXIR????
-_-
idk it just sounds very, VERY bad build. But that's just me. Proof of that is that you could do the same thing with gunner , his ''leg it'' is better than elixir and since you dont use the stealth (which at level 1 is useless in infantry maps since distances are tight) there is just no reason to support this build apart from experimenting Good luck with the build though.

P.s. yes i saw the video, in the first match we do not see the final standings , in the second one you are third in kill-deaths but they both were what i call ''r4pe games''!! 36 - 0 and 28 -0 is the score of a sweeper team and a dead body team, which in simpler terms shows a good team vs a noob team.
I doubt you would survive or score as high in any given ''good'' matches with that build no matter what.

Just a few things.

I DO use stealth, I just don't spend as much time in it as other commandos do... and... level 1 stealth is only useless if you're trying to get CLOSE to someone. I'm not, so all stealth gets me is refresh time. I didn't say stealth is irrelevant, stealth lets you flank, giving you that crucial first few shots. BUT, I don't RELY on stealth to get my kills.

AND, I'm trading soldier heal+ nades for elixer and stealth. (elixer shield = soldier hp) gunners may have leg it, but they don't have an accurate weapon. crucial difference.

I don't argue that a rifle+pistol build is stronger.... I've said that a number of times. I ALSO say that I don't like using the rifles... not my cup of tea.

About the video... I just pushed play now, and frapsed until my PC lagged up. SO thats what you ended up with. (used to have a sweet soundtrack too. /sigh)

I WILL say that the nats I was against were talking about how they were on vent, but one had to leave because he was lagging. /shrug. In the video section I also mentioned how one of my opponents was 30, and one of my teamates didnt have a presitge tag. Its my belief that the nats were Noobstomping, then couldn't handle it when higher levels joined. (it was a stupid mix of highs/lows.)

You're right though, I didn't top the SCORE board the second time, I DID top the KDR board... /shrug, my bad. But brings up a FEW things to note. Why the scores were so lopsided. The first round they were short players... and 2 of them were afk. The second round only one was afk, but they had a gunner feeding. At 5:30 you can see me STOP shooting a guy because I thought he was AFK too. (he wasn't)

But, regardless... both teams were pretty noobish. Did you SEE how scattered our team was most of the time? A big problem the Nats had was an unwillingness to defend the lookout. In round 1 you can see royals flip the flag without any real competition. (They'd fallen back to shoot bazookas at the windmill /shrug.) From here on out they're losing 2 tickets for every death. They also insist on pushing up the street rather than flanking... or removing the gunner from the roof overlookign their spawn. (the one flank attempt gets stopped by me thanks to a lucky TT)

You can watch this happen again around the 5 minute mark. The nationals get flanked twice, first by a soldier, then by a gunner. This bogs them down while the lookout gets capped. Then I half life or more the entire recap team as they try and make it passed the fence. From that point on both flags are solidly under royal control, and the nationals have to eat the increased attrition.

Its not that our team was awesome and their team sucked... Both teams kinda sucked, we just pushed harder than they held. (ALso, the fact that I went 6-0 and 7-0 MAYBE contributed to the ticket disparity? maybe? Naw, my playstyle sucks, so itmust have been the team right.) MOST 3 caps result in big ticket gaps though... thats why flags matter. (except BB.)

BUT, the belief that I don't do well most of the time is... false. I do. /shrug Look at my stats if you want. I GENEALLY maintain a 1400ish ELO, I'm over a 3-KDR. So why you would tell me I don't do well is beyond me. I use Play Now, unless i'm up agaisnt a rigged team, I do just fine. (NO one does well against a voice com team as a PuG.)

[22ezarc]

I personally used this build for my new commando because for one thing i was curious

and the next reason is that i found it very fun and

I greatly prefer fun over efficiency.

[Erreip199]

(19-10-2010 12:59 AM)22peesack Wrote:  I greatly prefer fun over efficiency.

[SweetName]

(19-10-2010 12:59 AM)22ezarc Wrote:  and the next reason is that i found it very fun and

I greatly prefer fun over efficiency.

Heres the relevant portion.

I find rifle use to be easy/boring.

I find knifing to be fun/inefficient.

I find 2 Pistoling to be more fun than sniping, more effective than knifing.... made a guide on how I do it, made a video to show how it plays out.

Also, again, It pleases me to be able to play with rank 1 stealth, 80 hp, very limited widget use and STILL think that gunners/soldiers are balanced fine... and that being a commando isn't any harder.

[DorianGray]

I used the long range pistol with mid range pistol before, very fun and I know of people that use 2 uber mid pistols as well and do quite well.

I've done this build before as well and I enjoyed it.

Question though, whats the advantage of a uber pistol and a non-uber for the long other than 3 more shots? I know it's crit difference, but how much? I don't want to use 2 different uber pistols because I think that looks weird using a german pistol and a revolver.

[SweetName]

Its actually pretty substantial.... A full 10% i think.

Uber pistol is one of the ubers that DOES have a significant impact.

[LERN3R0S]

I just think you are too stubborn to admit that you could do the same thing with a different class, a soldier to be more precise.
Your stealth is only good for snipers cause everyone else sees you in the field in long range, and you dont use it all around. Having elixir all the time is not an option to get the constant shield so soldier with his high health and healing ability is FAR better there is no argument about that!! It is crazy to say that elixir makes up for soldier's health when he also has healing abilities!! Not to mention fire bullets which causes good damage too!
As far as the video is concerned if there were afk players involved its an even more epic failure video. The fact that your team was noob shows that the other team was far noobier since it was 36-0 and 28-0 so still.... i think you wouldnt last in any game , i hope i meet you on the filed and let my blade and stealth prove you are wrong

[SweetName]

Again, I already HAVE a 30 soldier and gunner.

Again, you don't just stand in the open and shoot, you stealth to flank. Get it? You use cover, and an accurate and steady stream of fire... only stealthing when necessary. I can cross the beach with my rank 1 stealth.. a soldier can't. I can stealth and leave when a pack of gunners is charging my way... a soldier can't. Sure, rank 1 stealth won't help if there is ALREADY someone next to me... but i'm not stupid, so that doesn't happen often... Regardless of the rank, stealth makes you invisible... you jst need to be smart enough to not blunder into people all the time.

A 2 pistol soldier doesn't HAVE burning bullets. They don't have elixer to speed with. They don't have stealth. They have a larger base hp, a heal, nade and blasting strike. I have elixer, stealth, TT and MT... and the satisfaction of EFFECTIVELY playing a fairly unique build/style.

(Its a fact that stealth DOES make up for a soldiers heal though. Stealth = shoot first. 2 bullets = CM mitigated, Elixer 35 shield = 115 hp. Elixer speed = MUCh better dodge. These 3 things combined = advantage to commando.)

You can do the math yourself if you want. But don't claim I"M the stubborn one because ZOMG soldier gotz healz! Don't try to act like i'm lying when I have EVIDENCE to show that I am not.

/shrug, again, pushed play now, recorded my first two matches. Didn't say i was showing off how I am the best player with the best build in the game did i? Am I KILLING their afk players? no? so exactly WHAT impact does that have on me? Is your theory that one more active player and I would have gotten raped the entire game? Did you notice me STOP shooting a guy because i SUSPECTED he was afk?

Finally... LOOK AT MY STATS. LOOK AT MY PLAY TIME. I wouldn't last in any game? are you drunk? Its not like i'm level 8 and spouting off crap. Its not like I just started playing like this a week ago. From 12-26 I've had rank 1 stealth, and 2 pistols.

If I wasn't at least moderately succesfull... wouldn't my stats look alot worse? Wouldn't my ineptness be demonstrated in the video? I'm pretty sure I have a fairly HIGH ELO, and a fairly HIGH KDR. I've done all this playing THIS build, Solo, without widgets. Could I do better with fast rifle + Long pistol? Yep. Do I do better than most commandos you'll meet playing the game regardless of their build? Yes I do.

So, either i'm phenominal at the game (unlikely... look at ma accuracy) and my build sucks, OR I'm ok at the game, and the build is viable. (My theory.)

Look, I understand that you don't want to believe that this build works. Alot of commandos are insistant that the only way to play is Rank5 stealth... because soldiers/gunners are OP noskillbots. I have people tell me in game that my build doesn't work WHILE i'm killing them. Its human nature to not like having your preconcieved notions challanged. Its the same mindset that causes people to cry hax when they find out someone is better than them.

Frankly, if you want to give criticism of the build that MATTERS, point out my inability to cap defended flags. My difficulties in capping the rocket. My vulurabilty to Jeep rushes. How easily I'm killed by PB5. That its easy for tanks/planes to sneak up on me.

But to say that rank 1 stealth will get me killed? FALSE.
To say that soldiers can do the exact thing I'm doing but better? FALSE (they can do SIMILAR, but not the same... Notice when i go into the courtyard by the nat spawn... and i'm at half life and there is a gunner+soldier team. I survive this fight and get a kill thanks to elixer and TT. A soldier would have died... especially if the soldier was trying to use 2 pistols.)

To say that despite all the playing I do on a regular basis... I can't survive in game... FALSE.
To say that I"M the stubborn one? FALSE.
------------------------------
More importantly, SOUND IS BACK

[LERN3R0S]

Yaaaaawwwnn.... lol at the essays you write every time.
It is just pointless conversating with you is it not? lol I don't care about looking at you stats or anything chill out lololol
I just say to cut a long story short that you turn black to white to back up you build and you post 2 noob games to show off that it works. plain and simple ^^
Good luck getting killed at the game lolz ^^

[SweetName]

(19-10-2010 12:48 PM)LERN3R0S Wrote:  Yaaaaawwwnn.... lol at the essays you write every time.
It is just pointless conversating with you is it not? lol I don't care about looking at you stats or anything chill out lololol
I just say to cut a long story short that you turn black to white to back up you build and you post 2 noob games to show off that it works. plain and simple ^^
Good luck getting killed at the game lolz ^^

Sorry, I didn't know you had reading problems, I'll make it short for you.

It IS pointless having a conversation with me, because you refuse to look at any evidence contrary to your opinion.

I state facts backed up with evidence. You refuse those facts without grounds.
Then point at unrelated flaws in a quick video for some unknown reason.

TLDR: Hey, first try being good at commando before criticising my build. Try understanding reason before criticising logic.

[Deathelas]

Despite the criticism on your build, I am pretty impressed...especially by your video.
One thing that makes me wonder is how you survive a gunner that races by with leg it on and notices you in stealth. Do you retreat? Turn on elixir and strafe backwards while shooting? Or try to launch him by dropping a TT at his feet?
I played my Royal Commando with dual pistols a couple of times and found this to be the most difficult situation, being confronted with a gunner at close range in close quarter combat.

[Battelshipps]

(19-10-2010 10:30 AM)LERN3R0S Wrote:  i think you wouldnt last in any game , i hope i meet you on the filed and let my blade and stealth prove you are wrong

*snrk*

I think you've more or less buried his counter arguement, SweetName. The build works, you're a decent player, and every advantage that you've claimed about your pistol build has been adequately proven. He's just not hearing you, and he doesn't want to. I wouldn't bother 'conversating' with him any longer.

[Battelshipps]

(19-10-2010 02:36 PM)Deathelas Wrote:  Despite the criticism on your build, I am pretty impressed...especially by your video.
One thing that makes me wonder is how you survive a gunner that races by with leg it on and notices you in stealth. Do you retreat? Turn on elixir and strafe backwards while shooting? Or try to launch him by dropping a TT at his feet?
I played my Royal Commando with dual pistols a couple of times and found this to be the most difficult situation, being confronted with a gunner at close range in close quarter combat.

I can't speak for SweetName's twin LR, but with my SR/LR set up, I try to do both. Obviously the short pistol gives me more of a chance to kill him at very short distances; but disregarding that, and if evasion rather than killing him is the priority, then the key is to pop elixir and drop a TT before he can get his leg it off and close the gap. The initial boost from elixir will put enough distance between you to be able to set a TT up in his immediate path. The chances are that it won't have gone live by the time the gunner reaches it, so shoot it. If you manage to hit it at the optimum time, the gunner will be sent over the rooftops and you'll be well on your way to the hills.
By the time he tracks you down, your stealth will have come live again.

[SweetName]

(19-10-2010 02:36 PM)Deathelas Wrote:  Despite the criticism on your build, I am pretty impressed...especially by your video.
One thing that makes me wonder is how you survive a gunner that races by with leg it on and notices you in stealth. Do you retreat? Turn on elixir and strafe backwards while shooting? Or try to launch him by dropping a TT at his feet?
I played my Royal Commando with dual pistols a couple of times and found this to be the most difficult situation, being confronted with a gunner at close range in close quarter combat.

Well you A. Try to avoid this happening to you.

B. Ideally I have a TT already in place.... in which case you elixer, dance backwards and spam pistol shots.... kite him over the TT for the win.

C. is the less desirable... because its alot harder to pull off... but yeah, try to pistol detonate a troop trap.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
To be honest, usually if I see a gunner headed my way... i deploy a TT... then start shooting. I'd rather catch them off guard than have them start the fight on their terms.

[WildFaux]

2:08 you got called a aimbotter.

[Joost.]

I just tryed this build, and it's a lot of fun. But I prefer to trade 1 pistol for a knife, or short range pistol though. For example when you suddently get attacked by a knifer. I use elixer, spam quick shots (from short range pistol), and when I'm further away I switch to long range pistol and finish him.


P.S: Another advantage which you haven't mentioned I think (not sure) is that Commando's default movement speed is also faster than Soldier's.

[Battelshipps]

(19-10-2010 10:10 PM)Joost. Wrote:  P.S: Another advantage which you haven't mentioned I think (not sure) is that Commando's default movement speed is also faster than Soldier's.

+10 points. Twin pistol just feels right with a commando, in my opinion. Even the pistols themselves look odd in the hands of a soldier.

Yeah, that's mainly why I chose to keep my SR. I feel too vulnerable without it.