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16-03-2009, 02:25 AM | Post: #1
MaskedMakrel 
There is a lot done right. The level of customization is impressive and I have had a lot of fun playing it. Still, since this is a beta, I’m just going to state some of the biggest concerns I have heard repeatedly:

1. No VOIP. It is very hard to coordinate teamwork without in game voice over. Countless posts have been made on the subject and it would be a smart in game feature.

2. No mini-map. Just being able to see your teammates and get some idea of where you were going would be very useful.

3. No faction changing. This will probably mean that some rounds will be unbalanced since you cannot apparently switch sides. Team balance issues will remain a problem if we are stuck in one faction or the other.

4. Same class in each round. You cannot change classes in game. This means that players may get tired of playing the same class each round. Although you can create more characters, the inability to adapt to in round circumstances may be a put off.

5. Class inequalities. This is sort of an extension of point number 4. But not all classes are created equally. Because the classes have different attributes and abilities, they present greater playing challenges than 2142, for example. This is not necessarily positive.

6. No highly developed commo rosie. The in-game options have been very limited so far. I find that asking for medics, rides, and taunts is about the extent of my in game communication. Given the depth of the commo rosie development in BF2/2142, I am surprised.

7. Maps. There are only 3 maps so far. There should probably be more for launch.

8. Spawn Camping. There is no protection from spawn campers on any of the maps. 2142 had Titans in titan mode. Without some kind of protected spawn area, spawn camping will be prevalent.

9. No ability to pick your spawn point. This can make getting into battle slower as well as hinder tactics and strategies. It also leads to some long walks.

10. Buddies list? I know you can search for a friend, but it does not seem to have the kind of buddies list that even 2142 incorporated. I think it is essential to building community to have a robust buddies option.

11. No ability to pick a server. People are worried about high pings, latency, and lag issues.[/i]
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16-03-2009, 02:31 AM | Post: #2
Sowaka 
Pretty much sums up most of my problems with the game, it's a little odd too since many of these things are common in most modern online FPS games. I'm aware that BFH is very different from the other games, but alot of these things ruin the fun of the game.
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16-03-2009, 02:39 AM | Post: #3
Hoffster 
Class balance issues are my biggest worry in this game, commandos are way overpowered and have to much HP to have so much power.
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16-03-2009, 02:41 AM | Post: #4
MadHaTT3R 
OMG fix the fucking match making already. Get these big pining guys outta the close servers. twice today Ive tried to play and both times end up on some pos server, with a bunch of foreign speaking players. Hit 100 times they dont die, just spray you with the lag and then taunt. Its ********.

I'll pay 20$... for A NEW MAP!!!
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16-03-2009, 03:20 AM | Post: #5
Sgt. Salt 
(16-03-2009 02:25 AM)MaskedMakrel Wrote:  3. No faction changing. This will probably mean that some rounds will be unbalanced since you cannot apparently switch sides. Team balance issues will remain a problem if we are stuck in one faction or the other.

Are you mentally slower than "average"? Im sorry to be harsh but seriously come on? Are you joking? This is battlefield heroes, a WW2 game, not Counter Strike and not Team Fortress 2. When Dice came up with Battlefield heroes they advertised it as an 'MMO'. Think of this game as an mmo, if you chose your class, in an mmo lets say magician, do you have the chance to change that class later on in the game? I don't think so. Unless of course its runescape which is the worst game the world faced.
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16-03-2009, 03:22 AM | Post: #6
Sgt. Salt 
Again sorry to be too harsh on my above post.. I just get annoyed when people comment on stuff like that.

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16-03-2009, 03:23 AM | Post: #7
Sowaka 
When you fight in arranged battles in MMOs the game is usually balanced though. In other FPS games it'll switch your team to balance the teams so that if you've got 2 players on red but 8 players on blue it'll bring three of the blue players to the red team to make the teams even, rather than forcing red to fight an opposing team that's four times larger than them.
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16-03-2009, 03:45 AM | Post: #8
MaskedMakrel 
No Salt, I'm not mentally slower than "average", but I did end up with a lot of rounds in which there are imbalanced teams and there is no way to correct that right now because you can't just switch teams. I have 3 royals. Now I do have a Hero who is a National and I would be happy to play that Hero to balance the round out, but I would have to exit the server, change heroes, and hope to get back into the same server. Is that likely to happen? I do not mind picking a faction and a class. Personally, I like a lot of what Dice has done with Heroes and it is fun.

But, as I said at the beginning, these are some of the larger concerns I have heard from many people in the forums and during online play.
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16-03-2009, 03:52 AM | Post: #9
Hoffster 
(16-03-2009 03:20 AM)Sgt. Salt Wrote:  
(16-03-2009 02:25 AM)MaskedMakrel Wrote:  3. No faction changing. This will probably mean that some rounds will be unbalanced since you cannot apparently switch sides. Team balance issues will remain a problem if we are stuck in one faction or the other.

Are you mentally slower than "average"? Im sorry to be harsh but seriously come on? Are you joking? This is battlefield heroes, a WW2 game, not Counter Strike and not Team Fortress 2. When Dice came up with Battlefield heroes they advertised it as an 'MMO'. Think of this game as an mmo, if you chose your class, in an mmo lets say magician, do you have the chance to change that class later on in the game? I don't think so. Unless of course its runescape which is the worst game the world faced.
[/quote]

Just to clear up the meaning of an MMO vs a MMORPG like you just described should be obvious but here's a clarification, an MMO is Massively Multiplayer Online , the meaning of what you just described with a magician is called a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game and this is no RPG. Unless you consider being a soldier character online justifies it as an RPG, but then we have to change the definitions for each kind of online game that allows you to play any kind of character of sorts.

The problem here is a connudrum so to speak. You got two factions so we have to have server balance, and doing that the way this is setup is probably causing them issues. Trying to make sure you get the same amount of players on each side right now is an issue, but after release the serves will be so active it should not ever be a problem to find full servers.
(This post was last modified: 16-03-2009 03:54 AM by Hoffster.)
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16-03-2009, 03:54 AM | Post: #10
Hoffster 
And Salt do us all a favor and stop insulting people you disagree with by calling them mentally slower than "average", etc. It only shows immaturity when you can't deal with others on a level with some respect for their opinion. We all have opinions and they are all valid, including yours. I will always show you respect if you do so as well. Calling names will make you no friends worth having here.
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16-03-2009, 04:00 AM | Post: #11
[TS] Chuck Noris 
(16-03-2009 02:25 AM)MaskedMakrel Wrote:  There is a lot done right. The level of customization is impressive and I have had a lot of fun playing it. Still, since this is a beta, I’m just going to state some of the biggest concerns I have heard repeatedly:



5. Class inequalities. This is sort of an extension of point number 4. But not all classes are created equally. Because the classes have different attributes and abilities, they present greater playing challenges than 2142, for example. This is not necessarily positive.


7. Maps. There are only 3 maps so far. There should probably be more for launch.


ok...5....the classes are perfectly equal, its the skill of the person playing him, so take this out completely....just because a gunner killed a soldier doesnt mean class equality, its the skill of the person who killed him

7...obviously they will add more maps....

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16-03-2009, 06:22 AM | Post: #12
MaddMoose 
(16-03-2009 04:00 AM)[TS] Chuck Noris Wrote:  ok...5....the classes are perfectly equal, its the skill of the person playing him, so take this out completely....just because a gunner killed a soldier doesnt mean class equality, its the skill of the person who killed him

7...obviously they will add more maps....

Agreed, character balance is almost perfect at the moment. Only thing I'd change is reduce the rate of fire on the commando and up the damage. Make them take better aim and reward them for it. As currently commandoes are just forced to spam rounds as they do so little damage, which makes them easy pickings for soldiers and gunners.

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16-03-2009, 08:50 AM | Post: #13
Siemper 
Some are true, but some aren't really needed though...

like the Mini-Map...it is great if they ad it to see the Teammates but now for if you are lost...these maps get stuck in your head in a few rounds and you won't need the Mini-Map anymore to find your way.

Faction changing? it will stay like this., its a MMO Smile

More maps will be added time by time, 'it's a matter of time before we have the 4th one again Wink

Ty,
Siemper

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16-03-2009, 09:04 AM | Post: #14
ArchEagle 
On the whole faction thing.

I personally think that because you choose what Army to be in when you create a Hero it would totally ruin the game to be able to switch. You wouldn't be able to tell enemies from their clothes, which is a big help.

And, classes shouldn't all be equal. Imagine if BF Heroes was just one class. One class with a pistol, a SMG and no choice of abilities. It would be equal, but seriously boring.

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16-03-2009, 11:18 AM | Post: #15
BenCousins
Let's give this one some time.

First statement (I'm gonna bold this one) Battlefield Heroes is NOT designed for fans of the previous Battlefield games. It is designed to appeal to people who have never played a BF game before or who have maybe never played a shooter before. It really helps to understand the decisions we made to keep that goal in mind. If you are a hardcore BF player, I'm happy to see you playing the game, but you are not our main target audience.

DICE have other plans, totally separate from Heroes, for games to appeal to the hardcore BF fans.

Quote:1. No VOIP. It is very hard to coordinate teamwork without in game voice over. Countless posts have been made on the subject and it would be a smart in game feature.

We removed VOIP early-on. Why? Because the majority of our players will be casual fans who don't want to talk to strangers. If the clans want to co-ordinate tactics, use one of the well-used VOIP programs with your clan.

Quote:2. No mini-map. Just being able to see your teammates and get some idea of where you were going would be very useful.

We removed this early on. Why? Because BF 2142 had a much too cluttered UI that looks intimidating to casual players.

Quote:3. No faction changing. This will probably mean that some rounds will be unbalanced since you cannot apparently switch sides. Team balance issues will remain a problem if we are stuck in one faction or the other.

We removed this early on. Why? Because we wanted to make a game where your character is the center of the experience. Your character's sense of identity is strongly tied to the faction. Obviously we realized we could have team balancing issues if we did this, which is why we created the matchmaking system. Performance of the auto-balance will improve as more people play the game, so we have a greater 'pool' of potential people to bring into games.

Quote:4. Same class in each round. You cannot change classes in game. This means that players may get tired of playing the same class each round. Although you can create more characters, the inability to adapt to in round circumstances may be a put off.

We removed this early on. Why? Because we wanted your Heroes’ sense of identity to connected to class as well as faction. To mitigate the balance issues this might cause we gave each class an anti-tank weapon in the form of TNT and made tanks and planes much less powerful than in BF2 and 2142.

Quote:5. Class inequalities. This is sort of an extension of point number 4. But not all classes are created equally. Because the classes have different attributes and abilities, they present greater playing challenges than 2142, for example. This is not necessarily positive.

We will be constantly tweaking class balance.

Quote:6. No highly developed commo rosie. The in-game options have been very limited so far. I find that asking for medics, rides, and taunts is about the extent of my in game communication. Given the depth of the commo rosie development in BF2/2142, I am surprised. .

See my original statement about the audience for this game. Do not think of this game as a continuation of the development of BF2 and BF2142. There are other games that will do that.

Quote:7. Maps. There are only 3 maps so far. There should probably be more for launch.

And there will be.

Quote:8. Spawn Camping. There is no protection from spawn campers on any of the maps. 2142 had Titans in titan mode. Without some kind of protected spawn area, spawn camping will be prevalent.

We will do everything in our power to fix spawn camping in successive patches. We already have one feature (paradrop) that other BF games have not had.

Quote:9. No ability to pick your spawn point. This can make getting into battle slower as well as hinder tactics and strategies. It also leads to some long walks.

We removed this early on. Why? Because we felt the die/wait to respawn/pick spawnpoint flow from previous Battlefield game was too complex. You only miss it if you've played another BF game.
(This post was last modified: 16-03-2009 02:42 PM by BenCousins.)
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16-03-2009, 11:43 AM | Post: #16
GotN 
(16-03-2009 03:20 AM)Sgt. Salt Wrote:  Think of this game as an mmo, if you chose your class, in an mmo lets say magician, do you have the chance to change that class later on in the game? I don't think so.

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16-03-2009, 11:48 AM | Post: #17
Invisible 
agree on everything, exept the factionchange.

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16-03-2009, 11:51 AM | Post: #18
Siemper 
@Ben Cousssssinss

You pretty much said it all and i think this info should be used in a sticky to make it clear to people what this game is about.

But about the Casual Players, i am still confuzed about that. Casual Players as directly seen as player that don't understand anything, Casual Player have played games before and they know how games look and what the goal is in like a Shooter, Race, RPG etc!
Adding a Mini-Map would imo not make it harder/difficult to understand for a Casual player. He will understand this mini-map is a few seconds and think "Hey this is a mini-map showing the map from above and my team-mates". I don't need a Mini-map but i don't think it would be a problem.

About the Commo thingy, well i think it should be tweaked a little bit so it is easier to press the Medic Emote. But if you put the medic button in the middle it isn't really hard...so it's need but also not really needed...2 sides to it.

@Spawn Camping point

Killzone 2 has the best solution. If you don't know what it is...ugmmm
In Killzone 2 you respawn at one side of the map (Main base) just like you main-base in BFH. There they have automatic machine guns and when a enemy gets in the spawning area he gets shot + killed eventually Smile. Ofcourse this is ultra modern technology so it would not fit the BFH game.
I think the paradrop is pretty much the best solution...But i don't get Paradroped a lot..should be modified that if all flags are droped you get paradroped more.

About the faction changes...yea..true this is like a MMO and i actually think that is cool and different then those other games.

but about the Voice Chat, If eventually pretty much all the people would want this and we see this in a Poll, is it possible?

Ty,
Siemper

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16-03-2009, 11:52 AM | Post: #19
Alfred E. Neuman 
(16-03-2009 11:18 AM)Ben Cousi7ns Wrote:  Because we felt ...
Quite. And your post makes me, a casual gamer, feel that I am not being taken serious.

If some of the issues mentioned are not adressed, I will not be playing this game for long. It's no fun playing 4v8; or against a clanteam that uses voice where I can use none; or against teams who have boosted their xp no end with real money (xp widgets, anyone?).

I hope your tone is not indicative of the treatment we are going to get in future from the BFH devs. So far I have seen far more considerate, positive and, well, more relevant posts from non-devs.

Casual gamers are just as sophisticated as others, even if they don't put in 363 days a year on a single game. We want a smart, fair, tactical fight because it's a fighting game, not a role-playing game. We don't want to be teletubbied.

Watch this space (This post was last modified: 16-03-2009 11:59 AM by Alfred E. Neuman.)
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16-03-2009, 11:59 AM | Post: #20
BenCousins
(16-03-2009 11:51 AM)Siemper Wrote:  but about the Voice Chat, If eventually pretty much all the people would want this and we see this in a Poll, is it possible?

If, when we have several million players a month, we do a poll and determine that the majority of those several million players want and will use voice chat, then we will add it. I personally do not feel this will be the case.
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