Hallo, Gast!

05-11-2009, 10:12 PM | Beitrag #61
Street718 
nicely put crazy..you are a fly guy arent you

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05-11-2009, 10:22 PM | Beitrag #62
CrazyFlyGuy 
(05-11-2009 10:12 PM)Street718 schrieb:  nicely put crazy..you are a fly guy arent you

Feels confused.

Anyway, if your only argument is to insult my name, i feel sorry for you.

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05-11-2009, 10:43 PM | Beitrag #63
xxtanisxx 
I agree with CrazyFlyGuy, gunner is totally overpowered with their high hp and shield and leg it and keg. Higher attack!!

Soldiers on the other hand have lower attack, cant run, not good with close range, burning bullet dealing only 36 damages at lvl 5, and healing aprox. only 50% hp.
-
And for Truslow, your strategy works great for a not-so-good gunner. If you were playing with me, i would leg it behind you and shoot you, and not giving you a chance to run. Unless you have BB, but it is still useless in a compacted area full of buildings. Not to mention, gunners have 110 clips of ammo, comparing to 40 clips for soldiers.

-
The easy solution now is to upgrade the soldiers a little. Right now Gunner and commando are balanced side by side. Close range gunners win. Far range commando wins.
(Dieser Beitrag wurde zuletzt bearbeitet: 05-11-2009 10:46 PM von xxtanisxx.)
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06-11-2009, 08:56 AM | Beitrag #64
Truslow 
(05-11-2009 10:43 PM)xxtanisxx schrieb:  And for Truslow, your strategy works great for a not-so-good gunner. If you were playing with me, i would leg it behind you and shoot you, and not giving you a chance to run. Unless you have BB, but it is still useless in a compacted area full of buildings. Not to mention, gunners have 110 clips of ammo, comparing to 40 clips for soldiers.

For what it is worth I wouldn't really be upset if you killed me at close range and beat my tactic as a good gunner. I'd be a but upset not standing a decent chance midrange and I've seen that soldiers aren't as great at midrange as they should be. One thing I've suggested is buffing soldiers midrange to that effect. I've also agreed (in other threads) that 2-3 points of damage needs to be taken off of the MR MG long range max damage and put the FF crit chance back to the way it was. I just don't think a nerf will truly achieve soldier dominance at midrange.

I kind of figure taking on a good gunner at close range should go the same way it usually ends up taking on a good sniper at long range. I end up dead unless I am super lucky because I tried to fight them in their ideal range. No matter how good of a soldier you are no one seems to expect to kill a good sniper at long range and it seems reasonable that the same thing occurs against a good gunner at close range. I would hardly call gunners OP for being able to dominate at their ideal range when (sniper) commandos are quite reasonably able to dominate at their ideal range. Tweaks should be made for midrange sure, I just happen to believe the best place to start is buffing soldiers weapons at midrange (specifically the MR SMG) to be capable of doing damage at midrange comparable to what the SR SMG is already capable of at short range. I don't think that is an unreasonable buff.

I apologize if I came across implying I could take on a good gunner that way. I'll grant in that case it doesn't work. Against a good gunner though I just team up with my own good gunners and the problem usually solves itself. Again though if I take a good gunner on at close range I never even expected to win. The tactic works great vs noobs and to some extent can work vs an average gunner. Against an average gunner it usually is situational (who gets off first shot, what abilities are/aren't on cooldown and availability of cover for example). Those fights seem to end up similar to the way fights against an average sniper end up, difficult but not impossible.
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10-11-2009, 01:12 AM | Beitrag #65
Tsunami! 
(20-10-2009 01:22 AM)Ademo schrieb:  Bad Commandos need a buff.

Yup. Switching to gunner should be a good buff.

(03-07-2009 01:59 AM)JEr- schrieb:  DUDEEEEE WAIT A MIN THESE DEVS CANT EVEN MAKE A FPS WITH 3 GUNS 3 MAPS AND 3 CLASSES GIVE THEM A BREAK PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

(01-10-2009 04:34 AM)minim4p schrieb:  Gunners are slow. You have to wait. Give them 2 or 3 days to study the new abilities...
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10-11-2009, 01:54 AM | Beitrag #66
CrazyFlyGuy 
(06-11-2009 08:56 AM)Truslow schrieb:  
(05-11-2009 10:43 PM)xxtanisxx schrieb:  And for Truslow, your strategy works great for a not-so-good gunner. If you were playing with me, i would leg it behind you and shoot you, and not giving you a chance to run. Unless you have BB, but it is still useless in a compacted area full of buildings. Not to mention, gunners have 110 clips of ammo, comparing to 40 clips for soldiers.

For what it is worth I wouldn't really be upset if you killed me at close range and beat my tactic as a good gunner. I'd be a but upset not standing a decent chance midrange and I've seen that soldiers aren't as great at midrange as they should be. One thing I've suggested is buffing soldiers midrange to that effect. I've also agreed (in other threads) that 2-3 points of damage needs to be taken off of the MR MG long range max damage and put the FF crit chance back to the way it was. I just don't think a nerf will truly achieve soldier dominance at midrange.

I kind of figure taking on a good gunner at close range should go the same way it usually ends up taking on a good sniper at long range. I end up dead unless I am super lucky because I tried to fight them in their ideal range. No matter how good of a soldier you are no one seems to expect to kill a good sniper at long range and it seems reasonable that the same thing occurs against a good gunner at close range. I would hardly call gunners OP for being able to dominate at their ideal range when (sniper) commandos are quite reasonably able to dominate at their ideal range. Tweaks should be made for midrange sure, I just happen to believe the best place to start is buffing soldiers weapons at midrange (specifically the MR SMG) to be capable of doing damage at midrange comparable to what the SR SMG is already capable of at short range. I don't think that is an unreasonable buff.

I apologize if I came across implying I could take on a good gunner that way. I'll grant in that case it doesn't work. Against a good gunner though I just team up with my own good gunners and the problem usually solves itself. Again though if I take a good gunner on at close range I never even expected to win. The tactic works great vs noobs and to some extent can work vs an average gunner. Against an average gunner it usually is situational (who gets off first shot, what abilities are/aren't on cooldown and availability of cover for example). Those fights seem to end up similar to the way fights against an average sniper end up, difficult but not impossible.

Well, im assuming your a good soldier.

A good soldier should be able to hold his own against a good gunner, no, don't care about the whole "rambo" concept, its supposed to be balanced, and at the moment it isn't.

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10-11-2009, 02:35 AM | Beitrag #67
Truslow 
(10-11-2009 01:54 AM)CrazyFlyGuy schrieb:  A good soldier should be able to hold his own against a good gunner, no, don't care about the whole "rambo" concept, its supposed to be balanced, and at the moment it isn't.

I'd like to think I'm a decent soldier, not great but decent. I prefer gunner though because that class fit my play style much better even before the buff. My opinions on soldier tactics is based on a combination of my experiences as a soldier and my experiences as a gunner when fighting good soldiers.

At any rate I'd just like to amend your comment: A good soldier should be able to hold their own against a good gunner at medium or long range. A good soldier should only be able to hold their own against a poor gunner, give a decent gunner a run for their money, and the odds should be heavily in the favor of a good gunner if the majority of combat stays at close range. Seems to me that is exactly what happens now so far as close range goes.

So far as close range is concerned it is balanced, the problem is a lack of balance at midrange. At midrange the same balance should apply for soldiers: gunners only hold their own against a poor soldier, give a decent soldier a run for their money at midrange, and have the odds heavily against them if the majority of combat occurs at midrange.

If this occurred I think we would have a perfectly balanced game.
(Dieser Beitrag wurde zuletzt bearbeitet: 10-11-2009 02:37 AM von Truslow.)
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10-11-2009, 02:43 AM | Beitrag #68
CrazyFlyGuy 
(10-11-2009 02:35 AM)Truslow schrieb:  
(10-11-2009 01:54 AM)CrazyFlyGuy schrieb:  A good soldier should be able to hold his own against a good gunner, no, don't care about the whole "rambo" concept, its supposed to be balanced, and at the moment it isn't.

I'd like to think I'm a decent soldier, not great but decent. I prefer gunner though because that class fit my play style much better even before the buff. My opinions on soldier tactics is based on a combination of my experiences as a soldier and my experiences as a gunner when fighting good soldiers.

At any rate I'd just like to amend your comment: A good soldier should be able to hold their own against a good gunner at medium or long range. A good soldier should only be able to hold their own against a poor gunner, give a decent gunner a run for their money, and the odds should be heavily in the favor of a good gunner if the majority of combat stays at close range. Seems to me that is exactly what happens now so far as close range goes.

So far as close range is concerned it is balanced, the problem is a lack of balance at midrange. At midrange the same balance should apply for soldiers: gunners only hold their own against a poor soldier, give a decent soldier a run for their money at midrange, and have the odds heavily against them if the majority of combat occurs at midrange.

If this occurred I think we would have a perfectly balanced game.

The problem is, with the use of Legit, any combat can be quickly moved to close range.

Though i do sorta agree with your comments.

I'm thinking stuff the dodgy midrange concept, and just balance them at all ranges... You know, like before the update. Trying to properly balance long, short, whatever range doesn't really work when Legit is around, and when maps are designed as they are.

Where some maps like CC, all combat is pretty far away, while on maps like VV, all combat is really close... Both classes should hold there own in there undesired range, but of equal skill should lose. But they should be slightly better in there desired range...

To much close/mid range imbalance means map design will almost always affect the outcome... Which i don't really like.

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10-11-2009, 02:58 AM | Beitrag #69
Truslow 
(10-11-2009 02:43 AM)CrazyFlyGuy schrieb:  
(10-11-2009 02:35 AM)Truslow schrieb:  
(10-11-2009 01:54 AM)CrazyFlyGuy schrieb:  A good soldier should be able to hold his own against a good gunner, no, don't care about the whole "rambo" concept, its supposed to be balanced, and at the moment it isn't.

I'd like to think I'm a decent soldier, not great but decent. I prefer gunner though because that class fit my play style much better even before the buff. My opinions on soldier tactics is based on a combination of my experiences as a soldier and my experiences as a gunner when fighting good soldiers.

At any rate I'd just like to amend your comment: A good soldier should be able to hold their own against a good gunner at medium or long range. A good soldier should only be able to hold their own against a poor gunner, give a decent gunner a run for their money, and the odds should be heavily in the favor of a good gunner if the majority of combat stays at close range. Seems to me that is exactly what happens now so far as close range goes.

So far as close range is concerned it is balanced, the problem is a lack of balance at midrange. At midrange the same balance should apply for soldiers: gunners only hold their own against a poor soldier, give a decent soldier a run for their money at midrange, and have the odds heavily against them if the majority of combat occurs at midrange.

If this occurred I think we would have a perfectly balanced game.

The problem is, with the use of Legit, any combat can be quickly moved to close range.

Though i do agree with your comments.

Well as for Leg it my sympathies are with soldiers. I personally think they deserve some sort of speed boost like Elixir (minus shield). If for no other reason than to stop soldiers from suffering the problem of having cover 6 feet away but getting sniped because they couldn't run to cover. It never struck me as fair that gunners have a means for getting to cover fast but soldiers just have to pray that the commando's mouse bugs.

Even at 5 seconds that would be 5 seconds where the soldier would be able to nullify the ground a gunner could gain using level 5 Leg it. I think that would be the best way to go about starting to find a solution. It would then be a simple means of balancing those three speed boost abilities rather than trying to figure out a way to nerf an ability that would make it more fair for a class with no speed boost while maintaining balance with the other speed boost ability.

Since Elixir already exists all they would have to do is alter the coding to remove shield, rename it to something like "Sprint" and then attach it to the soldier class. To keep it balanced for knifers they could add an effect to PB which puts "Sprint" into cool down leaving BS as the only effective counter. That way knifers wouldn't get a nerf but soldiers would now have a more effective means of keeping combat at midrange.

I don't know if it is a great solution to Leg it and I doubt it would be the final solution but it seems like a good starting point.
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10-11-2009, 03:15 AM | Beitrag #70
CrazyFlyGuy 
Well, with legit at the moment, and im completely ignoring FF at this point.

A gunner can get close to a soldier surprisingly fast, and at that point out-damages the soldier.

The gunner also has keg slowdown, which further slows the soldier.

Grenade spam is basically completely useless as a gunner can easily move out of the way with legit.

BS is an advantage, but its activation time and the fact that legit lasts so long means the gunner can simply come back at speed.

I think a soldier sprint would be great, that would solve all/most of my problems actually. Also you know what would be cool? A jump ability. At the moment the soldier is the least maneuverable class, what with rocket jump and TT jump, wouldn't it be great if they could jump really high and far with an ability? (Not really serious, but would be cool)

I tried using many of your running away and cover tactics, but it fails when soldiers move so slowly they often get almost killed by the time they reach cover, also with the fact that its useless against a gunner with legit.

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(Dieser Beitrag wurde zuletzt bearbeitet: 10-11-2009 03:17 AM von CrazyFlyGuy.)
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19-03-2012, 02:49 AM | Beitrag #71
alexandre212 
With uber knife, any mando can kill a gunner because the uber knife is rapid and hit 80
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19-03-2012, 02:55 AM | Beitrag #72
epicchickengod 
Necro nub, and nub player thinks uber knife can kill gunner

SRS, this is from 2009 , and crazyflyguy must have sucked or something, QQing about gunners being overpowered back then was something

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19-03-2012, 03:11 AM | Beitrag #73
junkbondtrader 
(10-11-2009 03:15 AM)CrazyFlyGuy schrieb:  Well, with legit at the moment, and im completely ignoring FF at this point.

A gunner can get close to a soldier surprisingly fast, and at that point out-damages the soldier.

The gunner also has keg slowdown, which further slows the soldier.

Grenade spam is basically completely useless as a gunner can easily move out of the way with legit.

BS is an advantage, but its activation time and the fact that legit lasts so long means the gunner can simply come back at speed.

I think a soldier sprint would be great, that would solve all/most of my problems actually. Also you know what would be cool? A jump ability. At the moment the soldier is the least maneuverable class, what with rocket jump and TT jump, wouldn't it be great if they could jump really high and far with an ability? (Not really serious, but would be cool)

I tried using many of your running away and cover tactics, but it fails when soldiers move so slowly they often get almost killed by the time they reach cover, also with the fact that its useless against a gunner with legit.
The slowest and fastest moving classes both have speed increases but soldiers: nada. I think blasting strike should be able to launch the soldier like a rocket can launch a gunner. Then more ppl will qq about it but what's new? Undecided
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19-03-2012, 04:22 AM | Beitrag #74
shellini 
gunners can 2 hit mandos
just use keg with super tank buster

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19-03-2012, 12:53 PM | Beitrag #75
ShadyArmada 
the gunner is everything but OP
they are finally getting balanced, though the new demolisher arm thingy isnt really helping, but just stop whining will ya. Gunners like said before used to be UP, so if you cant kill them now that is because you s*ck. Try to stay out of its optimal range and then you will see that its not a big deal.

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19-03-2012, 01:55 PM | Beitrag #76
XXXKruszakus 
Mandos kill a gunner with 2 headshots from so far away, he won't even deal 20-30 damage before he drops.
Soldiers are the only class that actually can insta kill enemies with one press of a button... and they have such lame, cookie-cutter abilities, that every unskilled noob can play it and get good scores.
Gunner is, in my oppinion, the only class that trully needs superior aim, tactics and concentration. Everyone can me a moron spamming weapons and abilities that kill the enemy in a second, not everyone can maintain focus and grind out kills knowing that the enemy out dps'es you in almost every range.

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19-03-2012, 02:10 PM | Beitrag #77
WorldBosh 
People only think gunners are op because they actually are when you start out. That actually changes as you progress since soldiers and mandos actually begin to develop their skills and weapon choices. Thing is though, gunners don't require concentration and aim, but they do require tactics and overall faster reaction times. In my opinion, gunners that can pop shield and rocket jump away from the wall CAN survive the BS, but then again not many gunners can do that. As for surviving the LRP, you can easily kegzooka your target while legging it towards them. Without BS, soldiers would have nothing to protect them from gunners who get too close. I do agree with you on soldiers being much easier to play once you get the hang of them. I've been able to drop lvl 25+ nat gunners on my lvl 13 roy soldier all because of the LRP and BS xD.

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19-03-2012, 03:53 PM | Beitrag #78
ChonnyShroom 
(19-03-2012 01:55 PM)XXXKruszakus schrieb:  Mandos kill a gunner with 2 headshots from so far away, he won't even deal 20-30 damage before he drops.
Soldiers are the only class that actually can insta kill enemies with one press of a button... and they have such lame, cookie-cutter abilities, that every unskilled noob can play it and get good scores.
Gunner is, in my oppinion, the only class that trully needs superior aim, tactics and concentration. Everyone can me a moron spamming weapons and abilities that kill the enemy in a second, not everyone can maintain focus and grind out kills knowing that the enemy out dps'es you in almost every range.

^
Agreed.

Soldiers are good if not great.
But it's SOOOO easy.
BS insta kill.
BB camping.
Heal.

Gunners without widgets are so in a disadvantage, if you can't make up having no widgets with good aim.

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19-03-2012, 03:57 PM | Beitrag #79
ChonnyShroom 
(19-03-2012 02:10 PM)WorldBosh schrieb:  People only think gunners are op because they actually are when you start out. That actually changes as you progress since soldiers and mandos actually begin to develop their skills and weapon choices. Thing is though, gunners don't require concentration and aim, but they do require tactics and overall faster reaction times. In my opinion, gunners that can pop shield and rocket jump away from the wall CAN survive the BS, but then again not many gunners can do that. As for surviving the LRP, you can easily kegzooka your target while legging it towards them. Without BS, soldiers would have nothing to protect them from gunners who get too close. I do agree with you on soldiers being much easier to play once you get the hang of them. I've been able to drop lvl 25+ nat gunners on my lvl 13 roy soldier all because of the LRP and BS xD.

No concentration and aim?

Gunner low hp --> Activate Frenzy --> Bad aim --> Gunner dies.
Soldier low hp --> Combat Medicine --> BS --> Survives and gets a free kill.

So Gunners NEED good aim to survive unlike soldiers.

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19-03-2012, 04:01 PM | Beitrag #80
FlaSh[b]aCk 
(19-03-2012 03:57 PM)ChonnyShroom schrieb:  Gunner low hp --> Activate Frenzy --> Bad aim --> Gunner dies.
Soldier low hp --> Combat Medicine --> BS --> Survives and gets a free kill.

So Gunners NEED good aim to survive unlike soldiers.

Lol, you are both wrong. EVERY class in this game need to have a descent aim to survive. A soldier that cannot hit it's target will only be able to heal himself every 13th second and BS targets.

A gunner will only be able to run away with leg it and throw kegs. Don't be a stupid b*tich, you know all classes requiers aim. It's a SHOOTER you dumbass

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