General Gunner Discussion

[stryker:]

(05-02-2013 03:15 AM)Striker595 schrieb:  

(31-01-2013 12:13 PM)Hermanubis schrieb:  

(09-12-2012 04:16 AM)stryker: schrieb:  

(06-12-2012 05:36 AM)Hermanubis schrieb:  

(06-12-2012 04:32 AM)stryker: schrieb:  How about they make leg it a travel ability? Leg it will be interupted everytime you shoot, so it makes gunners able to move fast, but can no longer become a tank on steroids with usain bolt carrying it.

there would be no point in a gunner then if you can fire while legging it. without being able to fire.. the gunner is just a hunk of poop waiting to get destroyed at long range. since being a gunner is a mid to short range combatant, having to use leg it while not being able to do anything to a person shooting at you makes the class weak and useless.

The whole point in gunner is close range tanking and anti vehicle abilities, and the weaknessess are supposed to be slowness and lack of LR power.

That would make gunners the WEAKEST class. Essentially you're saying that gunners should just dodge bullets with leg it and not fire back? There is no point in a class where "running" away without being able to shoot back is a tactic.

A gunner's going to have a hell of a time trying to take down the soldier that just blasted him 50 feet away if that was the case...

That would be awful now that I think about it, but leg it still needs a nerf of some sort...

[HomicideJack]

They need to nerf the laser guns, as well. Eraser Ray/Royal counterpart, are both awfully overpowered. They really should increase the weapon's spread, because it's a super powerful MG, with a high rate of fire combined with almost no bullet spread. You might as well give them a minigun that has no recoil- oh wait, that's exactly what it is. And before anyone starts whining, because it's their favorite weapon, you're biased because it's your weapon, so don't bother replying to this statement. It's bad enough gunners are nigh unkillable with sniper-rifling rocket launchers, but now they're as accurate as a Commando's sniper rifle with a machine gun. It's supposed to be the close-range class, not a long range all-combat-scenarios class.

[:The:.Prototype]

(30-03-2013 09:07 PM)HomicideJack schrieb:  They need to nerf the laser guns, as well. Eraser Ray/Royal counterpart, are both awfully overpowered. They really should increase the weapon's spread, because it's a super powerful MG, with a high rate of fire combined with almost no bullet spread. You might as well give them a minigun that has no recoil- oh wait, that's exactly what it is. And before anyone starts whining, because it's their favorite weapon, you're biased because it's your weapon, so don't bother replying to this statement. It's bad enough gunners are nigh unkillable with sniper-rifling rocket launchers, but now they're as accurate as a Commando's sniper rifle with a machine gun. It's supposed to be the close-range class, not a long range all-combat-scenarios class.

Umm, you do know that the laser MG is almost completely useless at long range and is really only OP with high levels of FF right?

[HomicideJack]

(30-03-2013 09:49 PM):The:.Prototype schrieb:  

(30-03-2013 09:07 PM)HomicideJack schrieb:  They need to nerf the laser guns, as well. Eraser Ray/Royal counterpart, are both awfully overpowered. They really should increase the weapon's spread, because it's a super powerful MG, with a high rate of fire combined with almost no bullet spread. You might as well give them a minigun that has no recoil- oh wait, that's exactly what it is. And before anyone starts whining, because it's their favorite weapon, you're biased because it's your weapon, so don't bother replying to this statement. It's bad enough gunners are nigh unkillable with sniper-rifling rocket launchers, but now they're as accurate as a Commando's sniper rifle with a machine gun. It's supposed to be the close-range class, not a long range all-combat-scenarios class.

Umm, you do know that the laser MG is almost completely useless at long range and is really only OP with high levels of FF right?

Hence the issue, because anyone using it is using said ability.

[:The:.Prototype]

(31-03-2013 01:00 AM)HomicideJack schrieb:  

(30-03-2013 09:49 PM):The:.Prototype schrieb:  

(30-03-2013 09:07 PM)HomicideJack schrieb:  They need to nerf the laser guns, as well. Eraser Ray/Royal counterpart, are both awfully overpowered. They really should increase the weapon's spread, because it's a super powerful MG, with a high rate of fire combined with almost no bullet spread. You might as well give them a minigun that has no recoil- oh wait, that's exactly what it is. And before anyone starts whining, because it's their favorite weapon, you're biased because it's your weapon, so don't bother replying to this statement. It's bad enough gunners are nigh unkillable with sniper-rifling rocket launchers, but now they're as accurate as a Commando's sniper rifle with a machine gun. It's supposed to be the close-range class, not a long range all-combat-scenarios class.

Umm, you do know that the laser MG is almost completely useless at long range and is really only OP with high levels of FF right?

Hence the issue, because anyone using it is using said ability.

I don't use FF when I use the laser MG :3.

Anyway, the solution is to give a small nerf to FF itself, because the laser MG by itself is a decent but not OP weapon.

[HomicideJack]

FF isn't the issue, however. The combination of the laser and the ability in question is the issue. It's far too powerful; too accurate.

[Crowley69]

Nah, FF on any weapon is a general issue when it's maxed out. People just use the laser MG as a scapegoat for FF because it's the worst of the worst. FF would've been an ok ability if the same class wasn't given leg-it since he could heal as he slowly crawls up, but since he does have leg-it, FF is more or less of an overpowered ability no matter what weapon you slap it on. It's honestly time FF got a general nerf, either in healing, accuracy, or simply just the duration of it.

What exactly would you nerf about the laser MG anyhow? I mean, it only works in one range and anything outside that small gap makes it nearly useless when matched with other gunner weapons. The only reason you see it competing with short and long ranged weapons is because it heals for so much over such a long time, without FF it would lose most of the time since it cannot out damage the other MGs.

[TheDeadlyPlayer]

(31-03-2013 05:44 AM)Crowley69 schrieb:  It's honestly time FF got a general nerf, either in healing, accuracy, or simply just the duration of it.

I think nerfing the duration would be the most balanced. Probally around 6 sec instead of 10 or something like that.

[HomicideJack]

The laser is the issue, actually. All today I've fought these laser scrubs and they were killing my soldier across the map before I even had a chance to do any real damage. It's an OP gun that needs a tweak quite badly.

[Striker595]

The laser itself is, at best, mediocre.

The problem comes by when you've got the gunner crutching the Laser+SRMG+FF5+Tonic combination.

[Adadadoo]

The Laser + FF5 build is completely devastating against an average soldier. You need some really clever tactics(or for noobs they just camp) to kill a laser gunner in it's sweetspot using FF5.

I did some testing, a laser mg has a fire rate of 14.916 bullets/s (We can dig the files to find a number 1800 for rate of fire but its value is only for comparative purpose, I did the testing to find the rof with real life units)

Now we have FF5 which heals 12 hp per 4 bullet hits and assuming the gunner hits every bullet we get (14.916/4)*12 = 44.748 hp gain/s

Next we have a soldier sitting at the opposite end with his pistol with 2.934 bullets/s actual fire rate. Assuming you are also in the optimum range(the pistol and laser mg have overlapping optimum range but I'm just looking at the healing factor) you will deal an average of 15 dmg/bullet excluding crits. Thus dealing 44.145 damage/s if all your shots hit.

You are doing as much damage as he is healing!! I'm not counting the amount of damage you will receive during this time as a soldier so you can see how this battle will end.

The laser is no where near OP if dealt against the right way. But if an average soldier decides to fight laser + FF5 with no strategy and just walks straight up in it's optimum range, he will get wrecked.

The laser has some weaknesses such as:
1) limited ammo clip(compared to other mg such as the cheeser) You can empty your clip twice as fast as a cheeser.
2) The aforementioned range ristriction for optimum damage, if it is your primary weapon.

I usually try to throw grenades and force the enemy to activate ieg to stop their FF. I think GS is OP as well so I guess that's why many gunner use FF and many soldier use GS. Both abilities are kinda op and they counter each other perfectly.

The situations where you will fear the laser+FF5 combo that you need to avoid:
1) Open areas where the opponent can dodge your grenades.
2) Places with no cover

As an example: The places in between Market and Boulevard at RR, BB in general.

[stryker:]

If they do nerf FF it should nerf the healing ability. Soldiers should be the only healing class, along with the fact this will get rid of lone wolfs.

[Striker595]

Honestly, I hate using FF because in almost all cases, it just becomes a beacon which screams "Hey! Attack me!"

That, and it sometimes feels like a crutch.

[Crowley69]

(01-04-2013 02:58 AM)Adadadoo schrieb:  -strategies-

Honestly, the best way to counter the weapon with FF5 is simply just to avoid it. Really, walk behind cover, jump over a fence, crouch behind a barrel for all I care, the minute he loses line of sight of you he will most likely just use another ability since he's too slow (or simply impatient) to make it around the corner before the ability runs out.

If he decides to pursue you and has lets say a laser MG and a LR SG, get in close range and finish him off as he runs around the corner, despite the fact that he's a SR class you now have the advantage to flame him, spray him, spam him, ect.

I've beaten plenty of the users right after their precious FF wears off, because after that they don't have the sheer damage to fight outside of that one range, with blasting strike or a little bit of thinking, it's a piece of cake to take them out of it be it pull them closer or push them back.

The next time you see someone using the laser MG I guarantee after FF runs out he will switch to another MG, simply because he cannot heal like a monster with it, which is why the issue is not the gun itself but the ability paired with it. Hell, that could be applied to any MG, even though the Laser MG is the worst of the worst, FF is an overpowered ability regardless what MG you put it on.

Perhaps a longer cool down (that goes with any ability that has a cool down of 10 seconds), heal every 5th or 6th bullet, and reduce the duration drastically.

[HomicideJack]

With my soldier, the only time I can deal with laser gunners is outside of close range(medium range), is with a Lucky sprayer or one of the two battle rifles. The flamethrower is useless because any decent gunner just backs up from that weapon's very short range. I countered a couple of lasers a few times today, but only due to a massive amount of critical strikes with the Lucky Sprayer in combination with BB, GS, and BS. The laser MGs are as bad as the USAS12 Frag days in BF3. It's a god gun at this point. You just cannot win, and I'm a fairly decent soldier(imho).

[Crowley69]

Let's say a gunner with the Laser MG using maxed out FF is in mid range of you, yet there's a sturdy concrete wall right next to you. Don't even engage him, run behind that wall and don't bother shooting, and he is bound to chase you if he's that desperate for a kill.

Provided that he's in mid range it will take time for him to walk over, too much time to the point where he will use a different ability or the duration will expire: out of FF, check.

Instead of retreating all the way back, wait at the corner for him as he tries to follow, you are now in short range where he is weak with the weapon and he cannot heal since FF is charging: Setting your situation, check.

Now that you're here, you can try torching him to death, provided the flamethrower kills insanely fast you will be able to top him over, however if he's using leg it or whips out a SR MG and you cannot hit him, use blasting strike and a beginners knowledge of physics to push him away even farther (blast in the direction he's running). You have the power of choosing between short and long range just by waiting at that corner, whichever fits you best and whichever suits him worst will work just as well if you keep him out of mid range.

Does this mean if you're at 25 hp you can kill him? No, and retreat is a possible option, but if you're at 100 HP and he barely scratched you, then use your environment a bit and decide if you want to push him away, or trap him in his pursuit.

The sad and simple truth is that with FF, you will not win in the case of direct firepower if you're a soldier, which is why you play around with him and let him come to you. I've done this many times, more or less it works after you get the hang of it.

TL;DR - You will most likely not win when he's using FF, so wait till he stops using it before planing to kill him.

[HomicideJack]

The situations I was dealing with was in BB, out in the open; no cover nearby. But I'll give this tactic a try.

[Bansheebot]

A laser and FF5 can be outplayed but the effort ratios to counter between the laser user and the other player are way out of proportion.

Nothing can really justify a gunner basically becoming immune to damage whenever he wants to.

[Kapsimus]

guys i am gunner lvl 14 lvl good kd and i want to know how i should use my anilities i have 7 ability points.

[Runescape_XENOS!]

(12-04-2013 10:16 PM)Kapsimus schrieb:  guys i am gunner lvl 14 lvl good kd and i want to know how i should use my anilities i have 7 ability points.

5 leg it, 2 IEG .