General Gunner Discussion

[fausje]

(24-09-2011 05:03 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 01:59 PM)Phoenyxar schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 01:15 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  Think of FF as a back-up skill to save your ass when Leg-it is on cooldown.

With all respect Wuuster, but 90% of gunners use FF as an offensive ability...

Well, I make a conjecture that 90% of the players aren't that good. Leg-it is still a better offensive skill. Even though FF lets you heal lost HP, it's better if you're using Leg-it and you're disorienting your opponent. What's better? Losing HP and then slowly recovering it or never getting hit in the 1st place?

"Slowly recovering it"? The FF healing effects are extreme, check this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlmRKOfVUOQ I'm just talking about the healing effects here, I know that he is hitting 100% of the time and that this also makes a difference, but I'm just commenting on the healing effect.

And as for "never getting hit in the 1st place", 99% of gunners have at least lvl 1 keg (at higher lvls). As you know, you will be slowed down (for x seconds, depending on the keg lvl) if the keg explodes while you are within its explosion radius. You can counter this by activating IEG, which deactivates legit. Which makes you a lot easier to hit (since you are now the slowest you can possibly be, because of the keg's snare). This will result in you getting owned by the one using frenzy fire.

[(.SuPPenKeKs.)]

It s just an idea, but:
Remove the heal from FF and make HS absorpts the dmg and heals you.

[fexsoeder2.0]

imo keg needs a nerf.

[Phoenyxar]

(27-09-2011 06:41 PM)fexsoeder2.0 schrieb:  imo keg needs a nerf.

But the Keg is easily counterable with IEG, remind that... So I guess the Keg is quite outbalanced.

[Vahvetti]

Keg is fine.

[FearmageoddoN]

(27-09-2011 08:04 PM)Vahvetti schrieb:  Keg is fine.

+1.
Rather look at SRSG and/or removal of PP for gunners; unbalances the game way to much.
As far as I know, the game balance hasnt been fixed on in almost two years (correct me if im wrong), whilst new weapons and widgets has replaced f.ex CM; and new weapons have been added. Something needs to be done.

/ Met a gunner today who noobbashed at lvl 30, with tonics, shield lvl 5, ff5 and PP. Gamebalance is insane when a gunner with 160HP+ 60HP shield + tonic + FF heal = above 300HP, with the ability to counter snipers effectively? Pretty pathetic imo.

[fausje]

(27-09-2011 08:25 PM)FearmageoddoN schrieb:  

(27-09-2011 08:04 PM)Vahvetti schrieb:  Keg is fine.

+1.
Rather look at SRSG and/or removal of PP for gunners; unbalances the game way to much.
As far as I know, the game balance hasnt been fixed on in almost two years (correct me if im wrong), whilst new weapons and widgets has replaced f.ex CM; and new weapons have been added. Something needs to be done.

/ Met a gunner today who noobbashed at lvl 30, with tonics, shield lvl 5, ff5 and PP. Gamebalance is insane when a gunner with 160HP+ 60HP shield + tonic + FF heal = above 300HP, with the ability to counter snipers effectively? Pretty pathetic imo.

:/ that's a sad story.

But PP for gunners won't be removed, sadly.

[The_WUUSTER]

(25-09-2011 02:29 PM)fausje schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 05:03 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 01:59 PM)Phoenyxar schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 01:15 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  Think of FF as a back-up skill to save your ass when Leg-it is on cooldown.

With all respect Wuuster, but 90% of gunners use FF as an offensive ability...

Well, I make a conjecture that 90% of the players aren't that good. Leg-it is still a better offensive skill. Even though FF lets you heal lost HP, it's better if you're using Leg-it and you're disorienting your opponent. What's better? Losing HP and then slowly recovering it or never getting hit in the 1st place?

"Slowly recovering it"? The FF healing effects are extreme, check this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlmRKOfVUOQ I'm just talking about the healing effects here, I know that he is hitting 100% of the time and that this also makes a difference, but I'm just commenting on the healing effect.

And as for "never getting hit in the 1st place", 99% of gunners have at least lvl 1 keg (at higher lvls). As you know, you will be slowed down (for x seconds, depending on the keg lvl) if the keg explodes while you are within its explosion radius. You can counter this by activating IEG, which deactivates legit. Which makes you a lot easier to hit (since you are now the slowest you can possibly be, because of the keg's snare). This will result in you getting owned by the one using frenzy fire.

Alright I was exaggerating. But the time it takes for one gunner to throw a keg and then detonate it is simply too slow; a Leg-it gunner with good aim can easily take out huge amounts of health before he switches to IEG. And Leg-it is meant to be combined with the RPG; just running around shooting isn't enough.

Not to mention, one can always run away like a gazelle

[Duckhunter~]

(25-09-2011 02:29 PM)fausje schrieb:  This will result in you getting owned by the one using frenzy fire.

Most gunners have keg level 1, like you said. What's stopping them from throwing it now, making them either cancel FF or lose a pretty big chunk of health?

[HATE]

On the subject of Keg - the radius could stand a slight decrease. The damage fall off within that radius could use a slight increase

and soldiers need a way to cancel the slow effect.

For Frenzy.......Something has to happen. What "Something" is will not be decided until we have had time to flesh out the plan for abilities.

Duck hunter I love your sig-picture. Makes me want to create a "Fire Le Missiles" widget for tanks.

[FearmageoddoN]

(29-09-2011 09:38 AM)HATE schrieb:  On the subject of Keg - the radius could stand a slight decrease. The damage fall off within that radius could use a slight increase

and soldiers need a way to cancel the slow effect.

For Frenzy.......Something has to happen. What "Something" is will not be decided until we have had time to flesh out the plan for abilities.

Duck hunter I love your sig-picture. Makes me want to create a "Fire Le Missiles" widget for tanks.

Keg / soldier cancel slow effect +1

Some suggestions for FF:
1. Reduce healing
2. Remove healing, increase acc. bonus
3. Make the actual healing you receive have a limit of 2 seconds inbetween each pop.
4. Remove FF and replace with something else, something like a bash which stuns for 1second would be awesome or anything else actually.
5. Make FF rather be some DoT to every target within a specified range, which would decrease camping, not necesserily something which boosts your weapon.
6. Remove it totally, boost the keg by a bit, and replace it with a small ability you wouldnt want to invest in as much as f.ex legit. Example; SS. As soldiers would be getting the ability to remove slow effect, gunners could rely more on teamplay instead of the tempting solo-raid ability FF.

Feel free to suggest more any of you, and Ill add to the list. JUST examples, written hastily.

[(.SuPPenKeKs.)]

I would like to see it, if you nerf FF hardly and buff HS.
It is a much better team ability and it would make the game funnier.
Maybe remove the heal, but the acc should be the same or higher.
Every class has a good LR and SR weapon...without the gunner.(I m not speaking about this noobish PP...)
He just got an close range weapon.
At LR the gunner is just a happymeal for a Soldier or Snipe.

But also it would be op if the gunner has a pistol or something.
That´s a predicament

[MadnesWTF]

what if we remove FF and instead place a totaly new guner like ability

Reflector

Self ability

For 1-2-3-4-5 seconds reflect back any bulets shoot at him ( same direction and speed where it came from ) : include even sniper shots .

reuse at least 15 sec

animation : a big helmet drop from the sky all over his body

[The_WUUSTER]

(29-09-2011 01:50 PM)FearmageoddoN schrieb:  

(29-09-2011 09:38 AM)HATE schrieb:  On the subject of Keg - the radius could stand a slight decrease. The damage fall off within that radius could use a slight increase

and soldiers need a way to cancel the slow effect.

For Frenzy.......Something has to happen. What "Something" is will not be decided until we have had time to flesh out the plan for abilities.

Duck hunter I love your sig-picture. Makes me want to create a "Fire Le Missiles" widget for tanks.

Keg / soldier cancel slow effect +1

Some suggestions for FF:
1. Reduce healing
2. Remove healing, increase acc. bonus
3. Make the actual healing you receive have a limit of 2 seconds inbetween each pop.
4. Remove FF and replace with something else, something like a bash which stuns for 1second would be awesome or anything else actually.
5. Make FF rather be some DoT to every target within a specified range, which would decrease camping, not necesserily something which boosts your weapon.
6. Remove it totally, boost the keg by a bit, and replace it with a small ability you wouldnt want to invest in as much as f.ex legit. Example; SS. As soldiers would be getting the ability to remove slow effect, gunners could rely more on teamplay instead of the tempting solo-raid ability FF.

Feel free to suggest more any of you, and Ill add to the list. JUST examples, written hastily.

Nawh FF's fine the way it is

Though the crits are a bit cheap...

[(.SuPPenKeKs.)]

(29-09-2011 02:29 PM)MadnesWTF schrieb:  what if we remove FF and instead place a totaly new guner like ability

Reflector

Self ability

For 1-2-3-4-5 seconds reflect back any bulets shoot at him ( same direction and speed where it came from ) : include even sniper shots .

reuse at least 15 sec

animation : a big helmet drop from the sky all over his body

Like this idea. Should be combinated with shield and a hardly FF nerf


Only the animation.... WTF?!

[fausje]

(27-09-2011 09:40 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  

(25-09-2011 02:29 PM)fausje schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 05:03 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 01:59 PM)Phoenyxar schrieb:  

(24-09-2011 01:15 PM)The_WUUSTER schrieb:  Think of FF as a back-up skill to save your ass when Leg-it is on cooldown.

With all respect Wuuster, but 90% of gunners use FF as an offensive ability...

Well, I make a conjecture that 90% of the players aren't that good. Leg-it is still a better offensive skill. Even though FF lets you heal lost HP, it's better if you're using Leg-it and you're disorienting your opponent. What's better? Losing HP and then slowly recovering it or never getting hit in the 1st place?

"Slowly recovering it"? The FF healing effects are extreme, check this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlmRKOfVUOQ I'm just talking about the healing effects here, I know that he is hitting 100% of the time and that this also makes a difference, but I'm just commenting on the healing effect.

And as for "never getting hit in the 1st place", 99% of gunners have at least lvl 1 keg (at higher lvls). As you know, you will be slowed down (for x seconds, depending on the keg lvl) if the keg explodes while you are within its explosion radius. You can counter this by activating IEG, which deactivates legit. Which makes you a lot easier to hit (since you are now the slowest you can possibly be, because of the keg's snare). This will result in you getting owned by the one using frenzy fire.

Alright I was exaggerating. But the time it takes for one gunner to throw a keg and then detonate it is simply too slow; a Leg-it gunner with good aim can easily take out huge amounts of health before he switches to IEG. And Leg-it is meant to be combined with the RPG; just running around shooting isn't enough.

Not to mention, one can always run away like a gazelle

It doesn't take that long to detonate a keg: press button, shoot keg (for faster detonation use a shotgun while it is flying in mid-air) this takes maybe 0,7 seconds, unless you are using dual lr sg/punk sg + pp, you won't be dealing massive damage in 0.7 seconds.
The main reason you'd throw a keg at a leg-it gunner, is because you want to slow him down, not because you want to damage him. That's your next concern.

Running like a gazelle is a great tactic indeed, but only if it is used as a tactic (for example, lure the enemy into a friendly troop trap) not for chickening away

[fausje]

(27-09-2011 09:43 PM)Duckhunter~ schrieb:  

(25-09-2011 02:29 PM)fausje schrieb:  This will result in you getting owned by the one using frenzy fire.

Most gunners have keg level 1, like you said. What's stopping them from throwing it now, making them either cancel FF or lose a pretty big chunk of health?

You can't cancel FF by throwing a keg.
I think you didn't write what you meant to write down, can you re-formulate it please?

[fausje]

(29-09-2011 02:29 PM)MadnesWTF schrieb:  what if we remove FF and instead place a totaly new guner like ability

Reflector

Self ability

For 1-2-3-4-5 seconds reflect back any bulets shoot at him ( same direction and speed where it came from ) : include even sniper shots .

reuse at least 15 sec

animation : a big helmet drop from the sky all over his body

That would be totally overpowered... Maybe if it were something like: he absorbs 75% of the damage and reflects 25%, I'd be okay, but this...
Imagine what 5 seconds of reflecting bullets could do, any commando that is using the slow sniper and headshots you will most likely kill himself.
Anyways, that won't happen

[MadnesWTF]

well you must be .... idiot to keep shoot at that gunner after you see the giant helmet animation

but yeah the whole idea can be reworked , it was just random idea that pop out of my head

also , as i said the return dmg isnt aplied instantly . for example if a soldier is shooting at you from great distance with his little hyper acurate pistol and you use that ability to defend yourself till you find cover , and in same time the bulet travel time back will be same as coming towards you , so if guner have enough time to avoid the hit , a soldier will have even more time to take cover

ps:it can also reflect BB bulets , making soldiers much more carefull using it , and not just spam it for huge scores .

[fausje]

(29-09-2011 04:47 PM)MadnesWTF schrieb:  well you must be .... idiot to keep shoot at that gunner after you see the giant helmet animation

but yeah the whole idea can be reworked , it was just random idea that pop out of my head

also , as i said the return dmg isnt aplied instantly . for example if a soldier is shooting at you from great distance with his little hyper acurate pistol and you use that ability to defend yourself till you find cover , and in same time the bulet travel time back will be same as coming towards you , so if guner have enough time to avoid the hit , a soldier will have even more time to take cover

ps:it can also reflect BB bulets , making soldiers much more carefull using it , and not just spam it for huge scores .

True that, but still, if you're shooting from far away and for some reason don't see the helmet animation (even though you shouldn't be camping) it'd still probably come as a shock to suddenly die. People would also start getting weird kills like this, gunners with sniper kills?
And one idiot can ruin it for his team, if he decides to shoot at you even though you reflect the bullets, he will also damage his team if he is in a small group.

I like the idea of soldiers not using BB every single time. Maybe any bullets that are affected by a damage enhancing ability are reflected back? (Abilities include: piercing shot, poisoning blade, frenzy fire, burning bullets)

But soldier could possibly be getting even huger scores, since they damage their team by shooting a reflecting gunner, their teammates will ask for a heal. Lots of damaged teammates asking for heal + lvl 5 CM = lots of points.